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George Floyd

Started by Magdalena, May 31, 2020, 02:20:45 AM

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Magdalena

Quote from: Davin on June 05, 2020, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on June 05, 2020, 08:04:30 PM
"Of all the injuries inflicted by racism on people of color, the most corrosive is the wound within, the internalized racism that leads some victims, at an unspeakable cost to their own sense of self, to embrace the values of their oppressors."

--H. JACK GEIGER, CIVIL RIGHTS WORKER.
There is a long history of people siding with their oppressors and even fighting for them. With the Women's Suffrage movement there women speaking out against a woman's right to vote.

Yes, internalized sexism:
It takes the form of sexist behaviors and attitudes enacted by women toward themselves or other women and girls.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Tom62

Quote from: Davin on June 05, 2020, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on June 05, 2020, 08:04:30 PM
"Of all the injuries inflicted by racism on people of color, the most corrosive is the wound within, the internalized racism that leads some victims, at an unspeakable cost to their own sense of self, to embrace the values of their oppressors."

--H. JACK GEIGER, CIVIL RIGHTS WORKER.
There is a long history of people siding with their oppressors and even fighting for them. With the Women's Suffrage movement there women speaking out against a woman's right to vote.

A kind of Stockholm Syndrome?
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Magdalena

Quote from: Tom62 on June 05, 2020, 11:20:46 PM
Quote from: Davin on June 05, 2020, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on June 05, 2020, 08:04:30 PM
"Of all the injuries inflicted by racism on people of color, the most corrosive is the wound within, the internalized racism that leads some victims, at an unspeakable cost to their own sense of self, to embrace the values of their oppressors."

--H. JACK GEIGER, CIVIL RIGHTS WORKER.
There is a long history of people siding with their oppressors and even fighting for them. With the Women's Suffrage movement there women speaking out against a woman's right to vote.

A kind of Stockholm Syndrome?
I don't think it's the same. In one, you are being held against your will. In the other one, a person's self-hate or self-perception is heavily influenced by the white majority's perception of us (minorities) and when it's constantly a negative one, it somehow becomes "true."

Stockholm Syndrome:
QuoteFeelings of trust or affection felt in many cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim toward a captor.

Internalized racism:
QuoteInternalized racism is a form of internalized oppression, defined by sociologist Karen D. Pyke as the "internalization of racial oppression by the racially subordinated."[1] In her study The Psychology of Racism, Robin Nicole Johnson emphasizes that internalized racism involves both "conscious and unconscious acceptance of a racial hierarchy in which whites are consistently ranked above people of color."[2] These definitions encompass a wide range of instances, including, but not limited to, belief in negative racial stereotypes, adaptations to white cultural standards, and thinking that supports the status quo (i.e. denying that racism exists).

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Icarus

Whoa!!!!   I posted that  video for the purpose of examining "the other side" point of view.  You are intelligent people who have the capacity to assess other positions whether you agree or not.

The demise of Mr. Floyd is a clear case of murder by a rogue cop. That should be clear enough. That Floyd may, or may not, have been a bad guy is irrelevant to the reality that he was murdered without due cause.

Asmodean

Quote from: Tom62 on June 05, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
I've watched the video as well. The criminal background of Floyd is irrelevant. He was an unarmed man who was murdered by a bad cop. Three other cops were standing around, doing nothing to stop the murder. I haven't heard a single person say that was justified (maybe the KKK and other white supremacist groups excluded) . Even Trump found it horrible.
There's a lot of intersectional weirdness in this thread, so let me lay it out as I see it, from the cold and rational depths of me not giving a shit;

Mr. Floyd's criminal background, use of narcotics, on-scene behaviour, etc are relevant to understanding the timeline of the events, as one must, were one to form an informed opinion on what happened. The same is true for the arresting officer's level of education, mental state, affiliation with the person being arrested, etc.

For instance, one way or another, Mr. Floyd ended up on the ground with a police officer on top of him. Not being standard procedure under a routine arrest, how did that happen? Every one of the above variables, and yes, also Mr. Floyd's skin colour, may or may not have had significant influence on that and other events on the timeline leading from the call being made to Mr. Floyd's demise.

Understanding the variables in a situation does not equate to blaming the victim of a crime, or to excusing the perpetrator. It does, however, paint a deeper, more detailed picture of reality for each variable accounted for. It also lets one avoid some unfortunate rushed judgements. For example, there are groups out there which will tell you as if it were a fact that this was a racially-motivated crime. How do they know that? Could there be more to it, like negligence, carelessness, psychiatric/psychological issues, one or both parties having used narcotics, the list goes on?

My point is this; a lot of people are calling for change. Some are purely virtue signalling. Some in a more level-headed and grounded way than others. Some throw bricks at businesses because... Reasons. If you want change, but only approach the situation from a surface-level analysis, how will you be able to figure out where the problem lies?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

billy rubin

#35
my number one son is out protesting in tbe capitol today.

hes an SCA reenactor, and so hes wearing padded armour under hiz clothes.i told him to take his telephone and not to bring a gun.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ktla.com/news/local-news/advocates-sue-lapd-over-protest-tactics-alleging-disabled-homeless-man-was-shot-in-face-with-rubber-bullets-warning-graphic-image/amp/

pigs.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Randy

That's just downright disgusting. Are they just trigger happy or do they delight in shooting people? What was he going to do, run over them? He wasn't even protesting!
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Randy

"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Tom62

Quote from: Icarus on June 06, 2020, 06:12:31 AM
Whoa!!!!   I posted that  video for the purpose of examining "the other side" point of view.  You are intelligent people who have the capacity to assess other positions whether you agree or not.

The demise of Mr. Floyd is a clear case of murder by a rogue cop. That should be clear enough. That Floyd may, or may not, have been a bad guy is irrelevant to the reality that he was murdered without due cause.

Don't worry Icarus, Candace Owen is a very clever young lady. She is the conservative opposite "version" of AOC. I find her far more sympathetic though than AOC, who sometimes comes across as complete SJW moron.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Magdalena

Quote from: Asmodean on June 06, 2020, 09:46:12 AM

There's a lot of intersectional weirdness in this thread,
...
Yes, there is.
Again, I asked Tank to separate the topics, there is the case of George Floyd specifically and police brutality. There is also police brutality in general in the USA, this deserves its own space....but nooooooo.
He won't separate them. Too late now, it's all tangled.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Asmodean

Hmm... I could give it a shot, but it would not be a clean separation.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Magdalena

Quote from: Asmodean on June 06, 2020, 06:22:31 PM
Hmm... I could give it a shot, but it would not be a clean separation.
;D
That sounds like a divorce.

But seriously, you are right. it would not be a clean separation. I learned my lesson.

:notes:
Start a topic in the right place.

...But Separate them if you want, I would appreciate it.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

billy rubin



more people have been to berlin than i have

Magdalena

Quote from: billy rubin on June 06, 2020, 09:38:50 PM
magdalena:

https://twitter.com/NickAndert/status/1268316722773192705?s=09
Wow!
Yes, this is the LAPD.
It has always been like this.
(Image:1991)

Looks like these mother fuckers never got a chance to beat up a piƱata when they were kids.  :grrr:

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

billy rubin

well, my son got back from his demnstration without incident.


more people have been to berlin than i have