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Proving that nobody can get into heaven<--Watch this vide

Started by imrational, August 08, 2006, 05:12:23 AM

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imrational

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzzORZhnCao

Awesome video.  This is currently my favorite on youtube!

Whitney

#1
I hadn't seen that one yet.  It was funny and thoughtful.

But I wish Marshal would quit being so literal with interpretations.  Part of the issues with determining what Jesus was actually saying is that he spoke in parables, any christian knows that (or should know).  So, the video is good for fundamentalists who think the entire bible is the literal word of God, but I don't see it making much of an impact on thinking Christians.  But, time restrictions do take away the amount of time that could be spent stating a verse then explaining why it should be interpreted in a certain way and even if the verses which could be viewed as parables are taken out, the chart probably wouldn't change much.  

Sorry, just being critical...I think I've stated a similar gripe on the whywontgodhealamputees forum before and surprisingly very few Christians come there to defend their beliefs on the basis the Jesus spoke in parables...so maybe I'm being critical for no reason.

iplaw

#2
No.  You make a good point.  It makes him look petty and also makes him look disingeuous to most people who understand parablistic biblical teaching.  

An intelligent christian watches a movie like this and feels sorry for the fact that either Marshall is wasting his time shadow boxing or really believes that he is disproving the teachings of Christ which is embarassing for him if that is his goal.  

Taking comic or very obtuse and literal versions of christianity and disproving them only disproves the obtuse version of christianity you are attacking.  You can't futher extrapolate that to include the philosophy of Christianity as a whole.

That was one of my contentions with WDGHA the book.  He denies the need for contextual reading which is a joke.  You can't take an ancient book like the Bible and read it like it was written yesterday for you personally.  I know some christians believe you can but that doesn't make them any less wrong than him.

Big Mac

#3
It was written by nomadic sheepherders who resemble the Taliban, not a group I'd particularly like to emulate to listen to.
Quote from: "PoopShoot"And what if pigs shit candy?

imrational

#4
Quote from: "iplaw"No.  You make a good point.  It makes him look petty and also makes him look disingeuous to most people who understand parablistic biblical teaching.  
People understand parablistic teaching?  Funny, I thought Jesus was saying that even his disciples didn't understand his parables and also that there were some things that were spoken in parables so the common man wouldn't understand it.  Here are a couple of quotes.

"... Jesus said to them, 'Don't you understand this parable?  How then will you understand any parable?'" - Mark 4:13

"After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable.  'Are you so dull?' he asked." - Mark 7:17-18


QuoteTaking comic or very obtuse and literal versions of christianity and disproving them only disproves the obtuse version of christianity you are attacking.  You can't futher extrapolate that to include the philosophy of Christianity as a whole.
I'm surprised that intelligent Christians do not therefore try to disprove the obtuse versions themselves.  Wouldn't it be best for everyone if Christians were following the correct version?
QuoteThat was one of my contentions with WDGHA the book.  He denies the need for contextual reading which is a joke.  You can't take an ancient book like the Bible and read it like it was written yesterday for you personally.  I know some christians believe you can but that doesn't make them any less wrong than him.
Once again, shouldn't correct christians be trying to herd their mistaken fellows back into the fold?  It sounds like those atheists were doing good christians a substantial favor by pointing out the fallacies of the incorrect christians.

iplaw

#5
QuotePeople understand parablistic teaching? Funny, I thought Jesus was saying that even his disciples didn't understand his parables and also that there were some things that were spoken in parables so the common man wouldn't understand it. Here are a couple of quotes.

"... Jesus said to them, 'Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable?'" - Mark 4:13

"After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 'Are you so dull?' he asked." - Mark 7:17-18
My point was that we APPRECIATE the parables for what they are and not as LITERAL anecdotal evidence.  Disciples not getting the point a parable is just like you not getting the point of what I was driving at.  No harm no foul.

QuoteI'm surprised that intelligent Christians do not therefore try to disprove the obtuse versions themselves. Wouldn't it be best for everyone if Christians were following the correct version?
I sincerely doubt it would make a difference to you either way because your beliefs are already set in stone.  Do you often write about and decry atheists who misrepresent your "brand" of athiesm, whatever that is to you, or do you just ignore them?  I bet you just ignore them.

QuoteIt sounds like those atheists were doing good christians a substantial favor by pointing out the fallacies of the incorrect christians.
I would agree if that was the goal, but it wasn't.  Marshall is committing a logical fallacy by extrapolating the idea insead of localizing it and is playing upon athiests preconceived notions of christianity which thereby allow for the unwarranted extrapolation.  That is what laetusatheos promptly called on the proverbial carpet correctly as an abstraction.

iplaw

#6
Here is another of my pet peeves with dear old Marshall.  I will leave him alone after this, afterall I like howstuffworks.  He loves to decontextualize the Bible.  Wonder what would happen if I did that to Marshall...





Marshall Brain the Bible Thumping Christian:

...we should worship God as the Bible demands...

...God's power often can be quite dramatic...

...There are so many examples of the power of prayer, but one in particular deserves special consideration because it is so well documented...

...God is all-knowing and all-loving...

Sounds like the statements of a fundie christian to me.





This is a good illustration of my point.  If I treat WDGHA like Marshall treats the Bible one could rightly assume that Marshall is quite the Bible thumping Christian, but read in context we get the real picture.  Simple context.

Whitney

#7
This is kinda off topic...but still fits in with what is being discussed here.  Jesus obviously knew that not everyone was getting the point of his parables...so why did he use them when teaching?  It seems it would make more sense for him to talk in a manner that could be understood by everyone.

iplaw

#8
I think the points that are important to salvation are euclidated sufficently.  I think one of the main reasons he used them is that parables were the preferred rhetorical mode of the day.  He did speak directly when there was confusion in several instances.  I think it was also clear that even when he did speak directly they still didn't get it, and probably that was okay.  Possibly eluding that the journey, thought processes and constant reflection was more important than ultimate outcome on certain topics.

BTW laetusatheos can you delete that previous double post.  When the website is slow I tend to hit refresh and the post shows up twice.  Thanks.

imrational

#9
Hunh.  I thought a few of the parables were Jesus trying to avoid getting lynched by blatantly speaking blasphemy.

iplaw

#10
Okie Dokie...I don't even know what that really means...but sure...maybe you could restate that for me.