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The Parable of the Blind Men and an Elephant

Started by xSilverPhinx, November 21, 2019, 02:12:10 AM

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xSilverPhinx

The parable, originating in India at least a millennium BCE, is as follows:


QuoteA group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable". So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. In the case of the first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said "This being is like a thick snake". For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan. As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk. The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall". Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope. The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.

Version taken from Blind men and an elephant (Wikipedia)

I felt this story relates to what I do. In science, sometimes what we work with is the reductionist approach where we shine a spotlight on one small area or phenomenon and ignore the vastness that's left in the dark. Other people might come along and shine a light on another area and encounter different results from yours, and in many cases, the first reaction is to argue over who's right. We can't all be right, can we?

Of course we can, even if not completely correct in our assessment. Even if we miss the forest for the trees. A forest is made up of trees, after all.

I find this parable appealing because it does one good to remember that sometimes a subjective assessment of something objective can be correct but at the same time wrong on a higher level -- if not completely wrong. Just as the blind men felt different parts of the same animal and reached wholly different conclusions, we can be prone to doing the same.

To wrap up this post, I have adapted the Serenity Prayer :

FSM, grant me the insight that my perception can be faulty, courage to adapt myself to new perceived evidence, and wisdom to know I still might not be seeing the whole picture.

:pensive:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


jumbojak

I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...

:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!

You are, wholly right, of course. :P
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


jumbojak

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...

:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!

You are, wholly right, of course. :P

I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...

:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!

You are, wholly right, of course. :P

I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.

I see things differently.  ;D  I've seen how plenty of people who are not very clever think and you are not one of them. You seem like a very practical thinker to me, which is good! 
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Magdalena

Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...

:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!

You are, wholly right, of course. :P

I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.
That, or you have the wisdom to see the whole picture.
:levitate:


:grin:

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Magdalena on November 21, 2019, 02:44:23 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...

:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!

You are, wholly right, of course. :P

I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.
That, or you have the wisdom to see the whole picture.
:levitate:


:grin:

:this:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


hermes2015

Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...

:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!

You are, wholly right, of course. :P

I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.

Any man who uses the word stomple is clever in  my eyes.
"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames

Davin

I like that parable.

It can also be used to explain why it sucks when people intentionally mislead others. Imagine if one guy was like, "it breaths fire and hates liberals."
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Tank

They don't say if it was a male or female elephant. Maybe we should be thankful for small mercies!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

reductionism is a tool to be used when appropriate, and set aside when it isn't. in that respect, it's like correct grammar, which is not always the best way to express oneself.

i have a backgorund in evolutionary ecology, which is the epitome of not-reductionimsm. my departmental chair was a physiologist, who disdained ecologists as "snake chasers . . ."

the ecologists referred to physiology as "the study of dead and dying organisms."

it depends on what you want to be looking at.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Tank on November 21, 2019, 04:22:58 PM
They don't say if it was a male or female elephant. Maybe we should be thankful for small mercies!

:rofl:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Davin on November 21, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
I like that parable.

It can also be used to explain why it sucks when people intentionally mislead others. Imagine if one guy was like, "it breaths fire and hates liberals."

Took me a minute to get what you're saying. At least, I think I got what you're saying. :P

The elephant symbolises Republicans, right?
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


xSilverPhinx

Quote from: billy rubin on November 21, 2019, 10:04:56 PM
reductionism is a tool to be used when appropriate, and set aside when it isn't. in that respect, it's like correct grammar, which is not always the best way to express oneself.

i have a backgorund in evolutionary ecology, which is the epitome of not-reductionimsm. my departmental chair was a physiologist, who disdained ecologists as "snake chasers . . ."

the ecologists referred to physiology as "the study of dead and dying organisms."

it depends on what you want to be looking at.

That is true, there is a place for reductionism but at times it seems like people just rely too much on it and so over-simplify things which are better understood when looking at the whole ecosystem, organism, organ, etc.

For instance. Memory traces in the brain. No one can agree where the memory trace (called engram) of certain types of memory is "located" in the brain. People look at one area and say they're found it, others look at another and say no, it's here, not there.  :shrug: Could be it's in both, and the reason for each research group having found different results can have many interfering factors. Or experiments were poorly designed.  :-\
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Davin

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 25, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 21, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
I like that parable.

It can also be used to explain why it sucks when people intentionally mislead others. Imagine if one guy was like, "it breaths fire and hates liberals."

Took me a minute to get what you're saying. At least, I think I got what you're saying. :P

The elephant symbolises Republicans, right?
I mean if one of the guys lies about what they perceive. When trying to rely on multiple views to understand complex issues, bad faith actors are the worst.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.