V'Ger is back

[billy rubin]

thsts why i reject the modern technology.

i likr fuel injection because the computrr starts the motor immediately in freezing eeather. but i managed okay with a hand choke. and i could now.

knock sensors get the best fuel economy with variable octane fuel, sure. but i could set the ignition to run on what i could buy, like i used to.

the issue is trading efficiency for lack of control. i do not value convenience when i give up self sufficiency. not so very long ago i was contemplating giving up motors entirely and switching to horses. i was a plain quaker, after all.

if i get really pissed off i may make the switch still.

[Dark Lightning]

Flat rate is for manual tools, and I expect that a competent mechanic was required. I'd expect that a slower mechanic would take longer and make less money as a result, myself. According to people I knew in the industry, a competent mechanic was expected to do 11 hours work in an 8 hour day. Maybe that's what you're thinking of, Icarus. Back in the day flat rate was quite the lucrative racket. I could do, for instance, a front brake job on a 2-1/2 ton truck in 45 minutes. That was remove and machine the drums, replace/rebuild the wheel cylinders (time there is about the same, btw), pack the wheel bearings and put it all back together. The book says 3.2 hours, and most guys take close to that, as the pieces are big and hard to handle. I could do it in 45 minutes. I'd've adored a job as a brake mechanic where the vehicles were lined up for me. The boss and I'd've retired early. As another example, in those days I could pull an engine out of a vehicle (mine- a '64 Impala with a 327 and a 4-speed and only an alternator) in 45 minutes.

As for the Pilot, I was talking to a Kia mechanic (I have a Forte), and Kia will pay the mechanics for the number of hours that the job takes, up to 8 hours for an 8 hour day. If they finish fast, they are not allowed to book more than 8 hours wages in an 8 hour day, so they have time for themselves. Not sure I believe that, but I was a piecework mechanic a dog's age ago.

[Icarus]

Way back in the bronze age I was attending university. I was poor so I had to work part time.  I had a mechanic job at a Volkswagen dealership. In those days the only VW was the beetle. I had worked on so many of them that I was familiar with every damned bolt and nut on the engine and its auxiliary parts.

At that time the VW distributor representatives  were arrogant German shitheads who did believe that the German mechanic was far superior to any and all the dumb ass Americans. I encountered one of the Kraut dealer inspectors in the workshop area. Or more correctly, he assailed me as if I was an incompetent. He boasted that a German mechanic could remove the entire engine from the Beetle in 15 minutes. I said :so what?  I can do that easily. I knew that I could do it because I had done it several times before. He scoffed at the very idea that a dumbfuck young American like me could even approach that kind of mechanical competence.

Insulted, I told him to put his money where his mouth is. He arrogantly said that he'd wager 50 dollars that I could not do what I said I could. Holy shit....50 dollars at that time was a near fortune. The best I could hope for was to raise 25 dollars to cover the bet. One of the salesmen heard the argument and told me that he would cover the other 25. Deal. The arrangement was for the demonstration to occur the next time the official VW guy was to inspect our facility, some three weeks later.

The day arrived. I had made damned sure that I had a fairly clean car in the shop that would not challenge me. It seems that the heater mechanism and the ductwork in the Beetle could get rusty and dirty and cause all sorts of frustration and delay. OK I would see to it that no rusty customer cars were going to be involved. The VW shithead arrived,confronted me, put 50 dollars on the workbench and took out his stopwatch. I nervously put my side of the wager on the workbench along side his.

I had the engine on the floor, behind the beetle in a little over eleven minutes. I won 25 dollars which was a lot of money in 1955.

I suspect the flat rate for doing something, like that these days would be billed in hours not minutes. I concede that modern VWs are not nearly as simple and component accessible as the old ones.   


 

[Dark Lightning]

$25 in '55 was big money! Good for you, showing the arrogant prick up. I hated that kind of customer.

Though this wasn't a customer.

[Recusant]

I really dig that story, Icarus.

For me it calls to mind a fellow on YouTube that revives items (including old VWs) for fun. You might find it boring, but as a sometime shade-tree mechanic, I've learned useful stuff from him and he's decent company--a fellow who enjoys wrenching on ancient rusty things.

One memorable project is a 1959 VW "truck" -- a variation on the VW bus as I'm sure you're aware. It had been a lumber yard delivery truck, and under some primer he found the original paint with the company name and products named -- "Hardware" "Plywood" "Paneling" "Linoleum" etc. He kept the original paint, did some body work and got it mechanically roadworthy over many videos.

Part 1 walkaround

[Asmodean]

I suspect the flat rate for doing something, like that these days would be billed in hours not minutes. I concede that modern VWs are not nearly as simple and component accessible as the old ones.   

The way it works at my shop, they have a flat rate for a service, which is based on estimated work time and cost of parts and such-like. When they bill me, if they have used significantly less time for a repair, that is reflected on my bill by work hours being discounted by a certain percentage, which is calculated to a minute. (No discount for like one or two minutes on a two hour job though - 30 minutes plus is where it's at, I think) If they spend more time, however, the price is capped at the flat rate, meaning I can pay less, but not more - unless the shop contacts me and asks for a change of contract, which can happen because one thing tends to turn into another and the best laid plans of mechanics and men and so forth.

Not everyone does operate this way though, and I've heard of shops - even dealerships - using fixed rates to more-or-less rip their customers off. At my shop, they use them more as a guideline to make pricing more predictable with respect to undiscovered rust, currency fluctuations, the mechanic's seniority and so forth.

Good on you for showing Ze German what proper sauerkraut tastes like.

[Icarus]

One dealer in my city has locations that sell Honda, Kia, Chevrolet, and GMC at three different dealer locations.  We do have pretty near every other brand dealer. Toyota, Ford, Buick, VW,Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, Audi, Chrysler, Fiat, Acura, Genesis,Hyundai....and all the rest.  The town 12 miles away even has an Alfa Romeo dealership. Sheeesh! No Skoda dealership though.

I am told that each of these dealerships make a large proportion of their profits from service departments.

The operators of some of these franchises can be described as, at least, Junior Oligarchs.  Another thing about oligarchy, junior or senior, is the current system where an investment group buys or builds apartment buildings. Because the very rich have a closed system, the rental price for apartments is astronomical.  A one bedroom room apartment in my city costs about 18,000 per year.  That means that the tenant needs to earn something like 54 to 72 K per year which most of them do not.

I say all this as a 93 old dude who grew up a long time ago when hamburgers cost 10 cents. Hard to get a suitable perspective about how things have changed so drastically.

 

[billy rubin]

i remember ten cent hamburger.

banana splits were a quarter

[Dark Lightning]

I haven't eaten from McD's for many years. I remember ads in the '80s, maybe the '70s, saying one could get a meal and change back from a dollar.

[Asmodean]

Wait, doesn't whoever sell VWs also sell Škodas?

[Icarus]

^ Nah, no Skodas in sight. Not many people here have ever heard of such a machine. I think we got burned out a long time back when Yugos came to the US. We are now suspicious of brands we have never heard of.

There used to be a few dealers who sold Russian motorcycles. Damn those things were primitive. People bought them for the novelty I suppose.  I suspect that we won't see any more of those since the Russians invasion of Ukraine.

Damn..... I think that I have managed to derail the original subject. Sorry "bout that, it was not the intent.

[billy rubin]

those dnepr/cossacks were great sidecar rigs. very expensive

urals are still available.

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/mca?bundleDuplicates=1&postal=20003&query=ural&search_distance=1000&sort=date#search=1~grid~0~0

if i could find a ural sidecar near me for sale i would buy it.

[Recusant]

Damn..... I think that I have managed to derail the original subject. Sorry "bout that, it was not the intent.

It's not a problem--plenty of threads have derails here, and welcome. Doesn't prevent future on-topic posts from appearing and meanwhile the conversation continues. 

[Dark Lightning]

"Cabbages and Kings", and all that.

[Asmodean]

"Cabbages and Kings", and all that.

Cabbages. They are all green and nasty, but they are also round and lumpy-like-looking.

The Asmo hereby proclaims Himself-self to be the King of all Cabbagefolk.