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Another Mass Shooting

Started by Recusant, October 02, 2017, 06:58:25 PM

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Icarus

Homeschool? I have wondered whether a straight A home schooled student would qualify to enter a high end college  like Berkley, Cal tech, etc.....

Home school kids can take advantage of Internet professional teachers if their parents approve and pay.  The problem is that too many of the parents have questionable capacity to assess the most useful and essential courses for their children.

The Magic Pudding.


Asmodean

#362
Because an armed problem is liekly to do its damndest to solve itself?

On a serious note, I "want" people to have guns for a variety of reasons - the very reasons why those very people want said guns, within socially-acceptable norms. Outside such norms... Yeah, even with no firearms, people will find ways to stab, bludgeon, choke and poison each other to death. Where is the debate on the other tools they may use for the purpose?

Aum Shinrikyo managed to cause 14 deaths with some powder. Said powder was not precisely legal to possess, from what I understand, yet here we are. Peoples Temple managed almost a thousand causalties with some spiked "Kool-Aid" (no brand-shaming intended) Spiked with a substance you can perfectly legally purchase and own for a somewhat narrow list of good and legitimate purposes. Oslo's tram stabbists tend to stab people on trams. (Go, figure...)

If I personally was of a mass-casualty mindset (And for the sake of those multiple-letter agencies who may or may not be reading in on this, I emphasise that I am not. My distaste for humanity is not homicidal in nature) I would personally look into starting a good old-fashioned fire or three before entertaining the idea of explosives before even looking into guns.

If the only purpose a gun has is recreation or the facilitation of killing, how is that vastly different from the purpose of a box of matches?

...So yeah. Certain people, usually within certain (sub-)cultures are the problem. Their tools are not - unless they are faulty.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

Guns are not the problem.
People are the problem.
Then why do we allow the problem to own guns?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tom62

Quote from: Tank on March 31, 2023, 12:39:21 PMGuns are not the problem.
People are the problem.
Then why do we allow the problem to own guns?

Some people are the problem. Most people are able to handle guns with responsibility. It is a tiny minority that don't. If you allow those people to get their hands on guns, shit will happen.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Asmodean

Quote from: Tank on March 31, 2023, 12:39:21 PMGuns are not the problem.
People are the problem.
Then why do we allow the problem to own guns?
Why do "we" get to "allow" an autonomous entity anything? Are people being referred to here children?

I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but I do not see the society as allowing me anything - I claim "what's mine," and the society gets to make certain counter-claims in so far as "what's mine" interacts with it.

So, "just to own?" Yeah, I'm for nukes for everybody.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Icarus

Quote from: Tom62 on March 31, 2023, 04:21:16 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 31, 2023, 12:39:21 PMGuns are not the problem.
People are the problem.
Then why do we allow the problem to own guns?

Some people are the problem. Most people are able to handle guns with responsibility. It is a tiny minority that don't. If you allow those people to get their hands on guns, shit will happen.

Tom, the gun people in the US are anything but a tiny minority. Pollsters tell us that 70% of our citizens are in favor of more stringent gun laws. That leaves 30% of us to deal with the nearly 85 million who believe that guns are a necessity for survival. BFD! The powers that be are not going to enact any sorts of gun restrictions because the cowboy element is loud, and effective.

In my own state there are legislative rules afoot that will reduce the requirement for gun purchases from 21 years of age to 18 years of age. Not only that but there is much support for abandoning any sort of background checks for gun buyers. Open carry is also a popular goal for the gun nut types.  Open carry means that not only do you not  need a license to carry a firearm but it can be displayed openly in public.

I just can't wait until I must deal with wild west scenarios that involve shootouts. Like at the OK corral, of western movie fame.

Truth: I own some guns. Second truth: I have never fired any of them. I was pretty good as a marksman when I was in the military a very long long time ago. In the long interim I have had no real reason to fire a weapon.

Full disclosure:  I have fired an air gun at some paper targets in my backyard.  I have also fantasized about murder via wooden clothespin. There is a You Tube vid that shows how to convert a wooden clothespin into a vicious projectile firing device.  I have fantasized about using the clothespin projector to deliver sewing needles laced with poison such as curare or other lethal brew.

Would I shoot the thief who stole the catalytic converter from my auto mobile a few months ago??? If I caught them in the act..... I do not know. I hope not, but maybe the fury of the moment would cause me to abandon some of my better judgement.

Meanwhile, my country is rife with gun murders, some of them mass murders.

Ecurb Noselrub

You can have guns. Just not AR-15s, which apparently are tailor made to kill children. Outlaw them like they were in the 90s, and stop manufacturing ammo for them. We got along just fine without them in the 90s.

billy rubin

#368
the problem with that is that there are lots of guns that do the same thing that are not AR15s. that just happens to be the most popular long gun right now.

for example, for US$1900 you can buy an FN P90. this gun was designed with a 5.7 x 28 cartridge specifically intended to penetrate ballistic vests.



850 rounds per minute, 50 round box magazine. its a good gun for killing coyotes, they say, and is not a big powerful cartridge. but its perfect for killing elementary school children and then fighting off the police if they show up. so the need is to go back to a generalized ban on a generalized weapon.

most killings in the US are with ordinary handguns anyway. the distinction with AR15-style guns is that while not as commonly used, they kill a lot more people at one time, so they make the big headlines.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Tank

Trivia. In Stargate SG1 they carried the short barrel P90 but a 9mm pistol! Pointless ammo duplication.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

#370
the movie people really dont know much about firearms. look at the sad death of the film producer recently on the rust movie set. they like the looks, but dont take the time to study what theyre doing. an unintended firearms death on a movie set is inexplicable to me. guns are deadly, they are always loaded. you should never point one at something that you dont want to see die. you should never have a finger on a trigger until your sights are on a target. always be aware of what is in front of the gun and what is beyond it.

how hard is that? if you follow those four rules you will never have a gun accident.

there was a local window installation company here in ohio that raffled off one of these.



this is a conventional modern carbine, based on the beretta 92 action, i think? takes 9mm pistol cartidges, so it avoids the duplication youre talking about.

its interesting mechanically, but i am bemused by the people who think this sort of weapon is necessary in what is intended to be a civil society. i carry an unobtrusive handgun for self defense, because  i knew people, personally, who are dead because they did not carry a gun for self defense. very simple.

but my first line of defense is to run away, not engage somebody in a zombie apocalypse. im always wondering if i am part of the problem or part of a solution.



more people have been to berlin than i have

jumbojak

Quote from: billy rubin on April 02, 2023, 05:23:24 PMthe problem with that is that there are lots of guns that do the same thing that are not AR15s. that just happens to be the most popular long gun right now.

for example, for US$1900 you can buy an FN P90. this gun was designed with a 5.7 x 28 cartridge specifically intended to penetrate ballistic vests.



850 rounds per minute, 50 round box magazine. its a good gun for killing coyotes, they say, and is not a big powerful cartridge. but its perfect for killing elementary school children and then fighting off the police if they show up. so the need is to go back to a generalized ban on a generalized weapon.

most killings in the US are with ordinary handguns anyway. the distinction with AR15-style guns is that while not as commonly used, they kill a lot more people at one time, so they make the big headlines.


You cannot buy an automatic anything in the US for $1,900, and any P90 for sale here will be a semiauto. I don't personally know anyone who can squeeze a trigger fourteen times a second.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

billy rubin

no your right. i didnt mention that the 850 is for the full auto version. cant buy it hrre because its newer than tne 1968 cut off.

this semiauto also has the long legal barrel, whereas the full auto bullpups usually come with a short barrel to make a small gun.

and anyway to get 850 rounds uou have to change magazines 17 times. thats 30 or 40 seconds right there


more people have been to berlin than i have

The Magic Pudding.

#373
Quote from: Asmodean on April 01, 2023, 02:07:00 AMWhy do "we" get to "allow" an autonomous entity anything? Are people being referred to here children?

I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but I do not see the society as allowing me anything - I claim "what's mine," and the society gets to make certain counter-claims in so far as "what's mine" interacts with it.

So, "just to own?" Yeah, I'm for nukes for everybody.

Ah, I see where you've gone wrong, you've got it all the wrong way round.
The objectively proper thing to do is to arrange things for the all.
You can only be allowed to do anything as long as it doesn't bother the peace.

Your sort will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.


Icarus

Meanwhile back at the ranch (Florida) my red state legislators have managed to pass a bill that allows anyone to carry a gun, no license or training or common sense required. They came close to passing a bill that would allow "open carry". That means that one can walk around in public with his 45 magnum proudly displayed in his hip holster. We might then have shootouts at the local saloon or at the OK corral. Quick Draw would become a competitive sport. ESPN TV would no doubt cover the action.