News:

if there were no need for 'engineers from the quantum plenum' then we should not have any unanswered scientific questions.

Main Menu

Another Mass Shooting

Started by Recusant, October 02, 2017, 06:58:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Davin

I wonder what books billy finds acceptable then. I'm not saying Harry Potter is the best shit out there, but I don't think there is anything good that would make it past the firewall if the metrics presented here were applied without bias to everything. Thinking over all the books I read, I can't think of anything that be considered moral enough also teaches any kind of moral lesson.

I'm not saying people can't dislike something because of personal taste, but morally, Harry Potter isn't that bad when compared to all other works.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Papasito Bruno

I agree Davin. I mean a parent can decide what books, movies, TV shows their kids can watch, that is certainly a parental right, but I don't understand why you have to actually burn the books?

My Aunt gave both my kids Bibles when they were young, and I gave the books away to Goodwill.

I just don't understand burning the books someone gave to your kids as gifts. I mean some Christians do it because they actually believe the books are demon possessed or some crazy shit like that, and Nazi's burned books as they saw the being subversive or as representing ideologies opposed to Nazism. These included books written by Jewish, communist, socialist, anarchist, liberal, pacifist, and sexologist authors among others.(Which is why some Americans want to burn books).

My son was in Scouting, and I remember one young boy's who parents were very Evangelical type Christians. I went to their house a couple times, and they had passages of scripture painted all along the walls of their house. They got really upset because once on a Troop sponsored weekend camping trip some of the boys like my son had taken their Harry Potter books to read (Among others), and they wanted the troop to not allow such demonic trash to be allowed at any Troop events.

I remember at the meeting when they brought this up, and the Scout Master telling these weirdo parents that they may want to take their son out of the troop, because there was no way in hell we were going to ban kids from bringing books along on camping trips. (They let the boy stay for some time in the troop, but one of them would always accompany him on the camping trips, and meeting, and they always made it difficult for others in the troop, as they found moral issues with so much stuff, like music...I was so happy when they pulled their kid out)

I find it hard to believe an atheist and skeptic would act this way and burn books.


"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

jumbojak

I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of the Harry Potter series Billy. The story isn't one of moral relativism. It's a story about the real world set in a universe that kids can understand and engage with.

Yes, Dumbledore was a bad guy. He fooled the whole society. But people do that all the time. What's more, he was clearly troubled by what he felt he had to do. He is a complicated character that combines competing interests into a very real person. 

Snape was a member of the Death Eaters who reformed and came to be a pivotal part of their eventual overthrow. He was an undercover agent for their opposition who, despite being an unlikable man, worked to correct his past mistakes.

The Death Eaters we're hunted and imprisoned. Some of them were, anyway. They were thrown into the worst prison imaginable. Some of them escaped justice for a time and society tolerated their existence. That's how real societies work.

That's how growing up works. You have a childish view of the world that gradually shreds to a mature understanding of the fact that the world isn't a perfect place where right and wrong are easily divided along a clear line.

That's what I find so brilliant about those books. They start out as children's books that an adult can read and enjoy and gradually develop into an engrossing universe that facilitates sophisticated human interactions.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

billy rubin

none of what you say about the books is incorrect. except that i would not call tolerance of evil to be sophisticated. as a side note, i disagree with you about right and wrong. i think they can be very clearly divided. what us murky is the human decision about how wrong we are willing to be, and which wrongs we will choose over which other wrongs, if no right choice is easily available. the human application of morality to a great extent is an exercise in how and where we will ignore what we say are our values.

but anyway, i assume that you are familiar with video games,  jumbo? they come with age related ratings for people to use in assessing whether those games are appropriate for kids, of different ages. they ranfe from E for everyone for mild miscief and comedy, up to AO Adults Only for games like "seduce me" and "thrill kill."

i dont pay much attention to ratings as i make those decisions on my own, but the fact that they exist is my point. in my case i had kids who could read ranging in age from about 6 to 14. that means that books in the hkuse thst a 14 year old could read and understand were also accessible to a six year old.

remember the dinner party voldemort held with his minions? there was a scene where everybody sat down at the table to listen to voldemorts plans. all the while a former ally of voldemort was being eaten alive by a giant snake, in the air suspended over the table.

that sort of scene can be processed by adults ans a 14 year old, but i choose not to inflict it on my younger children


as to whether the books were actually any good or of any value, i let my kids decide for themsrlves when they were older. my nutcase father in law kept giving us copies of the same books over and over, and so when the kids were older i stopped burning them with the garbage.

but none of them were much interested in the books by the time they were old enough to understand the themes, so it was a moot point



more people have been to berlin than i have

Papasito Bruno

America's continue decline, and obsession with the death of our children is even more evident after WEE1 Tactical launched the "JR-15 at an annual shooting-sports trade show.

What is the JR-15 you ask?

It's a kids' version of the AR-15! Which is only the assault-rifle used in 11 of the 12 most high-profile mass shootings, including Sandy Hook and Las Vegas.

The JR-15 is a murder weapon whose "ergonomics are geared towards children", as it's lighter than the adult version at 2.2 pounds, and roughly 20% smaller.

It's a 22 caliber rifle, which the company touts has a lower recoil, and will be less painful for little shoulders when fired. They also claim since it's a 22 caliber that it's basically non-lethal...cuz', 22 caliber bullets can't kill.

Here's the fucking logo which comprises two skulls depicted as a little boy and girl, each sucking on pacifiers, and with a gun sight over one eye.
How nice.


Here's a page from their flyer...BABIES FIRST AR-15 :daddance:
QuoteGET EM ONE LIKE YOURS


Between August and December 2021, there were 136 instances of gunfire on school grounds, including one here in Michigan in November 2021. Kid shot up school with weapon his parents only recently bought him, and to which his mommy referred to as his "new Christmas present"!

Mass shootings aside there's also been an increase in accidental shootings at home during the pandemic: From March through December 2020, there were 31% more accidental gun deaths than in the same period in 2019.

What's next mini-hand grenades, and claymore mines for the kiddos?
"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

Dark Lightning

This is beyond ridiculous. I'm hoping that there will be sufficient parental supervision with these pieces of junk. A .22 can even kill a bear if used correctly.

Bad Penny II

Well I don't like them using my initials on their killing things.
Why can't they used them on some necessary thing, like a soft toy Antechinus



Or maybe a kitchen aid you can fearlessly leave unused in your third kitchen draw, like an Apple Reamer.
If I was of a strange foreign mindset I might find it amusing my big brother's initials are now applied to the juniors gun.
Some gun people think you should call these weapons, not guns and they get quite annoyed.
I know, I don't care, I have no fear, as long as they're nowhere near.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Recusant

Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2022, 07:48:59 PM
America's continue decline, and obsession with the death of our children is even more evident after WEE1 Tactical launched the "JR-15 at an annual shooting-sports trade show.

What is the JR-15 you ask?

It's a kids' version of the AR-15! Which is only the assault-rifle used in 11 of the 12 most high-profile mass shootings, including Sandy Hook and Las Vegas.

The JR-15 is a murder weapon whose "ergonomics are geared towards children", as it's lighter than the adult version at 2.2 pounds, and roughly 20% smaller.

It's a 22 caliber rifle, which the company touts has a lower recoil, and will be less painful for little shoulders when fired. They also claim since it's a 22 caliber that it's basically non-lethal...cuz', 22 caliber bullets can't kill.

Here's the fucking logo which comprises two skulls depicted as a little boy and girl, each sucking on pacifiers, and with a gun sight over one eye.
How nice.


Here's a page from their flyer...BABIES FIRST AR-15 :daddance:
QuoteGET EM ONE LIKE YOURS


Between August and December 2021, there were 136 instances of gunfire on school grounds, including one here in Michigan in November 2021. Kid shot up school with weapon his parents only recently bought him, and to which his mommy referred to as his "new Christmas present"!

Mass shootings aside there's also been an increase in accidental shootings at home during the pandemic: From March through December 2020, there were 31% more accidental gun deaths than in the same period in 2019.

What's next mini-hand grenades, and claymore mines for the kiddos?

I wanted it to be a parody, even though I knew it most likely wasn't. Freedom-- it isn't just for adults.  :shooty: :picard facepalm:
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


billy rubin

not a parody. heres the philosophy

QuoteOur goal was to develop a shooting platform that was not only sized correctly, and safe, but also looks, feels, and operates just like Mom and Dad's gun. That platform became the JR-15 22LR.

i own firearms and my kids have all been caregully instructed in their safe use since they were little. but this pushes the wrong buttons

skull and crossbones logos? seriously?

the AR15 was developed as a combat weapon, buts pretty much a generalist modern rifle. semiauto is standard these days, pistol grips go back, monte carlo stocks have been standard for a hundred years. it does have features for tactical use- accessory rails as nd so on.

the AR15 is like a sports car-- fast, handles well, looks and performs like the ones professional racers use. the difference is that the military origins and features wrre designed to kill people and the gun does that very well.

ive thought a lot about this very difficult issue and have come to the conclusion that barring a cultural sea change the only thing that would help is regulation of all semiautomatic weapons in the same way we regulate full autos- restrictions and licensing. and a ban on large capacity magazines.

but until there is a major cultural change that wont happen. and the entire first world war was fought with bolt action small capacity clips, so death wouldnt be going away.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Papasito Bruno

#324
"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

Ecurb Noselrub

Well, dammit, it happened again. 10 dead and others injured because some white supremist idiot decided to kill evil old black ladies buying ice cream. A good guy with a gun (imagine having to have a security guard at a grocery store) got killed because the murderer came with full tactical gear. The guard shot him but it had no effect, and then the guard got killed. The gun lobby says "everyone should have a gun so they can stop the bad guy with the gun", but not when he has body armor!  So the right to bear arms has now become the right to wear full combat gear in a grocery store. If all those little black ladies had guns, they would have still been killed.

Fox News, especially Fucker Carlson, shares some blame. They spew this "replacement theory" rhetoric, which is just racism dressed up to sound sophisticated, and it affects young, angry white people and influences them to do this shit. Frankly, I hope little old black ladies do replace these whitetrash supremists. Then, the world would be a better place.

billy rubin



more people have been to berlin than i have

Asmodean

Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2022, 07:48:59 PM
I mean... There was a time when my parents could have bought their way out of a lot of guilt for quite a long time with one of those there.

On a somewhat more sombre note, the availability of a tool is one issue. How people use it is another. Is there a reason a twelve year old cannot be responsible with one of those there rifles, if supervised by parents who are responsible with theirs?

The US gun community tends to balk at any hoops to be jumped through between them and guns, but then, where I'm at, it cost me several months and around ten thousand dollars (at the time) to get my driver's license. I would expect to have to do the same for a gun. Demonstrate that you can have it safely - or you don't get to have it.

Beyond that, my position is, as ever, nukes for everybody*

*Terms and conditions can and will apply
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Icarus

The second amendment was passed Dec 15, 1791.  I am OK to have that remain in place as written. However!  The rifles and handguns of the time were black powder single shot types. They were deadly enough if used skillfully.

If we are to apply the second amendment of 1791, then we need to demand that privately owned firearms must be of the kind familiar to the authors of that amendment. If the rules demanded 1791 style firearms, Columbine, Sandy Hook, Buffalo and others episodes would have had a much different outcome.   

billy rubin

lol

my number two son owns a 50 caliber flintlock.

 but you point out an interesting dilemma. judges who demand an originalist interpretation of our constitution require us to use the intent and meaning of terms and ideas as used in 1789 to interpret in todays world.

tbere were no repeating firearms in 1789, so to apply the writers intent to modern weaponry goes way beyond tbe original meaning.

but that cat is out of the bag. guns will never go out of circulation in america. law abiders and criminals alike will simpky ignore efforts to confiscate or register firearms, and there are too many untraceable guns now to ever control.

the only thong that will change gun insanity in ametica is a paradigm shift i n thinking, and we re going tbe other way


more people have been to berlin than i have