Now look what you made me do ...

[Dave]

Back in the 1970s self-help, often using introspection, self-analysis, in the hope of insight, was a big industry. Many serious and minor shrinks and utter quacks made a lot of money out of it.

Along with "I'm OK, you're OK" and PAC (Parent, Adult, Child) analysis came, "Now look what you made me do..." That phrase in now buried under archaeological layers of pop-song references, haven't found the psycho stuff yet. Was going to say "psychobabble" but there is often sense in there somewhere.

"Now look what you made me do" often refers to blaming others, erroneously for your own failings - especially if you exhorted them to be a part of the action in the first place. Maybe against their own common sense.

I shared the house with a guy decades ago. He liked his drink a little too much but did not want to be seen going into the pub, most nights of the week, on his own, having a companion sort of "shared out the guilt". So I got badgered into going as well, it was easier than put up with his moaning. He drank at hone, I did not, I could make a pint last two hours, he could not. My iron clad rule, we bought our own drinks, no rounds (You're no fun at all", my fault again).

My best friend, now living in Devon, likes her food, especially roast chicken and chips, Chinese etc. Even at a distance she still "nags" me to eat more - as if my increasing weight would excuse hers, in her mind it makes us complicit, she can share the guilt . . .

Anyone else remember those introspective days and have friends still playing the games? I suppose we all play them at times.

[xSilverPhinx]

Diffusing responsibility for one's actions or even inactions can take many forms, it seems.

It brings to mind the Bystander Effect. While not an interpersonal game it is similar because there are other people who are complicit just by being there and witnessing an event. 

[Arturo]

Those introspective days are still with me and it's a part of who I am.

[Dave]

Diffusing responsibility for one's actions or even inactions can take many forms, it seems.

It brings to mind the Bystander Effect. While not an interpersonal game it is similar because there are other people who are complicit just by being there and witnessing an event.

Yes, they used they case of Kitty Genovese to illustrate this in college. Kitty was brutally attacked in a public place and the public did nothing. Therefore some say they were complicit in the crime by their very inaction.

Later: thinking on this IIRC it was used as a case of "bystander apathy" rather than "complicity". But there could be a thin moral distinction between the two.  "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing", Edmund Burke.

Many countries have a "Good Samaritan" law that protects members of the public who intervene in a crime from legal action due to any damage they do or injury to the perpetrator from "reasonable force". I believe some countries may actively require a citizen to intervene - but one hopes that applies only to those physically able to do so.

[Asmodean]

Hmm... Good Samaritan laws, eh..?

Yes, I can see how those would be beneficial in some situations. Still, as far as requiring members of the public to step into potentially dangerous situations... Personally, I think that should be up to them. If they are willing to risk getting stabbed in the neck for a stranger, I'm happy to let natural selection sort them out.

I am, however, a strong proponent of requiring the witnesses to report a crime or a dangerous situation as long as doing so does not put them in danger. Basically, run away from the fire, turn a coupla' corners, get behind some massive concrete, then get your damned phone out and dial whatever the emergency number is in your locale. I have no qualms with this being compulsory, nor with witnesses who do not come forward without there being a reasonable expectation of endangerment being prosecuted for that.

[Dave]

Hmm... Good Samaritan laws, eh..?

Yes, I can see how those would be beneficial in some situations. Still, as far as requiring members of the public to step into potentially dangerous situations... Personally, I think that should be up to them. If they are willing to risk getting stabbed in the neck for a stranger, I'm happy to let natural selection sort them out.

I am, however, a strong proponent of requiring the witnesses to report a crime or a dangerous situation as long as doing so does not put them in danger. Basically, run away from the fire, turn a coupla' corners, get behind some massive concrete, then get your damned phone out and dial whatever the emergency number is in your locale. I have no qualms with this being compulsory, nor with witnesses who do not come forward without there being a reasonable expectation of endangerment being prosecuted for that.

Yes, I agree with the udea thst no, untrsined, nrmber of the public should be required to interfere in a situation where they might neet violence - unless they are rugby full backs or bouncers etc of course! I am thinking that not doing something that is within your ability, like calling for help by shouting or phone, is a sort of moral requirement if not a legal one. To lower your gaze and turn away, totally ignoring an offence - especially one against a person - is rather wrong.

Even small actions can help. I took a photo, with my phone, of a kid who regularly rode his motor bike over a grass embankment and down a narrow footpath near my home. Minor offence but a nuisance to pedestrians. He saw me take the pictures, including his registration number. He never rode that path again to my knowledge. I did not actually report him but heard, later, he was already on probation. Scared him!

[Essie Mae]

Going back to, 'Now look what you made me do', that's what my friend's husband would say to her after beating her up. When the dust had settled after the divorce, he apologised for hitting her before adding the rider, 'but you did provoke me.' (Ever since we were at school, she has always been the gentle calm one, who always made you feel better about yourself).

[Asmodean]

The Asmo does, of course, reserve the right to wrap the ruins of Luxembourg in a "Now look what you made Him do!" banner when that time cometh. Until then, He shifteth no blame for the acts of Asmo. After all, He is a proper deity, not like that YHWH feller. Like... You's a GOD! Get another bloody vowel or two! Also, take some fucking cred for your genocidal successes!

Hmph..! Gods! The Asmo shalt smite them all in His honor! 

[Dave]

Going back to, 'Now look what you made me do', that's what my friend's husband would say to her after beating her up. When the dust had settled after the divorce, he apologised for hitting her before adding the rider, 'but you did provoke me.' (Ever since we were at school, she has always been the gentle calm one, who always made you feel better about yourself).

That, Essie, is the epitome of this problem. If men like that have so little insight and self control they have no place in free society.

This is, in effect, at the core of the male attitude towards women in Near/Middle Eastern and South Asian countries, amongst others. IMO Burkhas, FGM and rape are all indicators of poor understanding and self-control in the men in those cultures. They always see the woman as the temptress. I am sure there are nice guys as well, but many still bow to custom.

[Asmodean]

IMO Burkhas, FGM and rape are all indicators of poor understanding and self-control in the men in those cultures. They always see the woman as the temptress. I am sure there are nice guys as well, but many still bow to custom

You know what I see as the problem there? Temptation somehow being a bad, less-than-virtuous, dishonorable thing.

"Must... Resist... Mustre... SIST... Mu... St..."
"Fuck it! I hath been temptethd for the last time! Let there be RAPE!"
"Your fault, vile wench, for having them legs and them boobs!"

I think getting rid of line number one may well collapse the scope of two and three as well. No real reason beyond personal analysis of different societies. In places where it's generally OK to be tempted and to live out one's fantasies, even when those are weird by most standards, we do seem to be pretty laid-back when it comes to turning rapist or wife-beater or what have you.

Hashtag letteenagersfuck, hashtag itsnotthesizeitswhogetstoplaywithit, hashtag fuckislam, hashtag feminism.

Did The Asmo forget a hashtag or two? 

[Essie Mae]

That just about covers it I think. 😀👍🏼