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I Hate Rap

Started by Kekerusey, September 26, 2016, 01:49:53 PM

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Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

No one

Rap should be considered a weapon of torture, and here by banned for all eternity. Doesn't matter who is wielding said weapon. White, black, green, red, teal, fuschia, or any other color.

Davin

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Magdalena on October 07, 2016, 09:06:47 PM
I think most people who continue to say that just because one persons says, "I hate rap" doesn't make them racist--don't live in the United States, so they don't know how most people who say that, are just masquerading what they truly want to say, but don't have the balls to say it, and when confronted won't admit it either. So what can we do? All we can do is say, "Take off your mask, and say what you really want to say."

I don't know how the statement "I hate rap" is viewed around the world, but in the USA, it just adds wood to a fire that's been burning for a long time. We don't need that.

Well, I don't know how the statement "I hate rap" is viewed in the USA, but racism isn't a problem that's exclusive to that area either. Here we also have blatant and veiled racism, which is a major social problem. It's not that I am insensitive to the plight of blacks, and racism is an ugly thing, but I just don't see how equating disliking a music genre to racism works, sorry.

Speaking for myself, I don't hate rap, but it isn't usually something I would choose to listen too, just as I don't like samba and bossa nova. ;) I don't hate blacks and everything they stand for, in my opinion they are the most poorly treated demographic in the western world and have just as much right to express themselves as anyone else in the "free" world.

Which brings me to...

QuoteOK, going back to Icarus:
...Because this is where all this started.

I asked him, why are you calling another human being a lesser mammal? Maybe he thought, why are you asking me this? Isn't it obvious? Then, he thought, oh, wait, maybe Mags is also one of those lesser mammals who hears rap in a very large older model pickup trucks with decibel sound intensity, enormous speakers, powerful amplifier, volts, huge auxiliary batteries, and huge alternators...and is offended by the comment I made.—I had no idea, all this time I thought you were the civilized type! So, he apologized to me.  :-\

Icarus hates rap and everything related to those who drive these, "hellish machines and terrorize the area with all that noise" –His words. Maybe he is worried that little girls, who are sugar and spice, and everything nice, will fall in love with one of this "Lesser mammals, semi humans, social misfits, insensitive mongrels, who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace."—His words. He's right; I mean what woman wouldn't want to fall in love with a man who will disturb her peace? I did.  :grin:

He said, "I have not apologized for inventing labels for insensitive mongrels who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace." He makes it sound as if all he's doing is "inventing labels" No, he's not "inventing" labels, those labels have been around, and some of us are telling him, "ENOUGH!" Those labels contribute to police brutality and discrimination. Like Pasta Chick said, "...there is also subconscious social racism. This a well documented thing. The sort of racism where you really don't know why, but hiring John James Smith III seems like a better idea than hiring Monique Makida Balewa."

Anyways...
There is an ugly hurricane passing where he lives, I hope he is fine.

~The angry hippie needs peace, now.

I have covered it, for those of you with a weak constitution.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

It's a song/video by Ice Cube, basically saying that the media, government, parents, are blaming gangster rap for every little negative thing that happens.

Yeah, it's complicated. Icarus can express his opinion, even if it is un-PC and hopefully he can appreciate how offensive to an entire group of people he comes off.

I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Biggus Dickus

#154
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 07, 2016, 08:31:03 PM
My problem with the assumption that people who dislike rap are racist, even if subtly, is that it does generalise that idea to an entire category of people (those who don't like rap). I've read the thread and it did give me the impression that there is an underlying assumption that if you hate rap, then you hate everything young urban blacks stand for.   

Can someone point me to a post in this thread where somebody actually said that they are in fact racist? I don't think you can, because nobody said it, yet people are assuming things that are probably misplaced. If there is a failure of communication here then it can go both ways...

Hi xSP.

You know what, your statement is sort of a derailment.

What I mean is when racism is being discussed, whether overt acts or simply statements of implied racial bias, I for one don't have much interest in whether or not the person or persons responsible are "Racists".

This may sound counterintuitive, and if does then maybe some clarification about how we address racism, and even white supremacy itself is needed.

Here's the point, it's not about identifying people as racists. It is not even about bashing people here on the forum who are white and making comments others or at least I feel are racist (And these comments were in fact made).

If you are the person who made such comments and if you feel that others telling you they (The comments) are in fact racist, and this causes you to feel uncomfortable you'll probably start defending your position because you feel you are under attack for no reason, because hey, "I never said I was a racist".

When it comes down to things like holding implicit biases, and even benefiting from white privilege, the question of whether someone here on the forum intentionally posted something bigoted is practically irrelevant.

This is a sensitive subject, and many folks start to interpret any mention of racism as a conflict, and this discussion of "Rap Music and Lesser Mammals" is certainly no different. So if someone gets called out as being racist or at least making a racist comment or statement that others feel has a harmful or hurtful impact, his being a "good person" isn't going to make that comment or statement vanish or less impactful.

Normally when any of us get called out for being racists and/or for making any type of hurtful comment (Whether it racist, misogynist or ableist) we take it as a personal attack on ourselves and our character, and then we simply make the situation all about us, and not about the bigger picture of how we can take responsibility for our own role with regards to dealing with -isms.

So when we we say a particular person "doesn't have a racist bone in their body" it can lead us to overlook the impact of what they've actual said or done and focus instead on their intentions, and as we all know intent isn't magical. So than we try to oversimplify it, and separate ourselves from the real bad guys, because good people can't say or do something wrong.

Maybe we should stop prioritizing our feelings over the pain others deal with everyday with regards to racism and maybe start to address the real and very valid concerns about how comments others deem racist contribute to the oppression they feel and the actual impact these comments have and how it affects them.

At least that is how I've come to look at it, or at least how I've come to understand the situation myself and explain it to my son, because I too have been in positions in my life when I've made comments that others have found hurtful, and it took me time to realize that the best thing I could do was stop and listen as to what is was I explicitly said that was so hurtful to someone else rather than try to defend my position or comment by, "Splaining" my intent or doubling down on my position.


This is a poem by Wendy Cope that I like called, "Differences of Opinion". It has to do more with the issue of 'Man-splaing" rather than racism, but it came to mind while I was writing the above post so I thought it might be fitting here as well.

"HE TELLS HER"

He tells her that the earth is flat...
He knows the facts, and that is that.
In altercations fierce and long
She tries her best to prove him wrong.
But he has learned to argue well.
He calls her arguments unsound
And often asks her not to yell.
She cannot win. He stand his ground.

The planet goes on being round.


PS. Bossa Nova Rules!

edited 1x to correct some of my horrendous grammar.
"Some people just need a high-five. In the face. With a chair."

Pasta Chick

I think then entire subject of "hating rap doesn't make you racist" is a misdirect. Obviously not; Everyone has musical preferences. The argument here is that posting topics online to justify your hate of rap with others who hate rap is generally about systemic racial bias that constitutes racism.

The fact that it is only rap subject to this is pretty glaring. And it's never "I hate rap and when I pass through this stretch of road all the radio stations except for three rap channels go out and my CD player is busted and it sucks", or "I hate rap and my buddy loves it and has been subjecting me to it for the past 3 hours of his house party but if I leave I look like a dick", or whatever. It's a bunch of thinly veiled bullshit reasons that don't stand up to scrutiny, that for some reason bug someone so much they need to start a topic to complain about it competely unprovoked.

Magdalena

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 08, 2016, 12:28:29 AM
I think then entire subject of "hating rap doesn't make you racist" is a misdirect. Obviously not; Everyone has musical preferences. The argument here is that posting topics online to justify your hate of rap with others who hate rap is generally about systemic racial bias that constitutes racism.


Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 08, 2016, 12:28:29 AM
The fact that it is only rap subject to this is pretty glaring. And it's never "I hate rap and when I pass through this stretch of road all the radio stations except for three rap channels go out and my CD player is busted and it sucks", or "I hate rap and my buddy loves it and has been subjecting me to it for the past 3 hours of his house party but if I leave I look like a dick", or whatever. It's a bunch of thinly veiled bullshit reasons that don't stand up to scrutiny, that for some reason bug someone so much they need to start a topic to complain about it competely unprovoked.
True.

This topic has made me realize so many things. But the one that impressed me the most was how the USA racism compares to the rest of the world. This is the first time that I've been able to give my point of view on this topic, here. To have a British hate rap. To have an American say that those who play rap music loud in their cars are lesser mammals...and ask, "Why are all those God damned motherfucking, cunt, insensitive mongrels saying so many goddammed motherfucking bad words?" ...was all the motivation I needed to say, "enough!"


"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Magdalena

Oh, and one more thing, before I take a break...

For those of you, who are poetically impaired, this is what this .gif means...

Still I Rise
Maya Angelou, 1928 - 2014

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
'Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops,
Weakened by my soulful cries?

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
'Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin' in my own backyard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history's shame
I rise
Up from a past that's rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that's wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Asmodean

What do you mean "Why is The Asmo beset with gloom?"

He's The Asmo. He IS gloom.  :???:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Bad Penny II

Quotehttp://beatlessongwriting.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/under-influence-douglas-adams.html
I didn't know it was art then, of course. I only knew that the Beatles were the most exciting thing in the universe. It wasn't always an easy view to live with. First you had to fight the Stones fans, which was tricky because they fought dirty and had their knuckles nearer the ground. Then you had to fight the grownups, parents and teachers who said that you were wasting your time and pocket money on rubbish that you would have forgotten by next week.

Douglas is calling me a knuckle dragger, but I liked the Beatles too so maybe only one side drags.  That's no comfort though, I don't want to be lop sided... 
Music a person isn't accustomed to will probably sound terrible to them, they are likely to say unkind things about it. Music/noise elicits emotional responses; it's pretty basic stuff really.
I think it was a big mistake sending voyager off with some committees' selection of music.  The aliens aren't going to like it, they'll probably call us inferior mammals and send a destructor fleet, I would.
Young males (amongst other genders) make music that is confronting to others, particularly older people.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if those young rascals enjoy outraging their elders.  An old guy, and Icarus is OLD, calls people of indeterminate race inferior mammals, I wouldn't censor him for it.  I'm not a member of the thought police though, they have ways of knowing his mind better than he does.  He always seems extremely polite, a proper gentleman some might say but that kind of stuff makes me suspicious. 


Quote from: Kekerusey on October 04, 2016, 03:24:33 PM
If there aren't lesser mammals, why did God invent the French, Australians and Chavs?

Keke

OH NO! I've just been racially vilified!!!
They were right, this is a racist thread.
Ye OK the French but what have we or the Chavoslovakians done?
It's our rugged good looks and vigour evoking unconscious primal fears we'll take your woman away again isn't it. I suppose I can empathise if not truly understand that.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 08, 2016, 07:17:51 AM

Music a person isn't accustomed to will probably sound terrible to them, they are likely to say unkind things about it.

This is true.  Even tho I'd always loved classical music, until I was 19 I hated opera -- it was just a lot of people screeching in a foreign language to me.  And then I heard Placido Domingo singing Samson in Samson et Delilah and all that changed.  Sometimes that's all it takes to change a mind -- just one singer or one song you hear that you happen to like.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

No one

Bad Penny II:
Music a person isn't accustomed to will probably sound terrible to them, they are likely to say unkind things about it.

I listen to just about everything. My collection ranges from crooners like Sinatra to Slayer. However, I do not care for country. I despise the radio gaga bullshit, and as already stated, I absolutely abhor rap, with every fiber of my being!

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Bruno de la Pole on October 07, 2016, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 07, 2016, 08:31:03 PM
My problem with the assumption that people who dislike rap are racist, even if subtly, is that it does generalise that idea to an entire category of people (those who don't like rap). I've read the thread and it did give me the impression that there is an underlying assumption that if you hate rap, then you hate everything young urban blacks stand for.   

Can someone point me to a post in this thread where somebody actually said that they are in fact racist? I don't think you can, because nobody said it, yet people are assuming things that are probably misplaced. If there is a failure of communication here then it can go both ways...

Hi xSP.

You know what, your statement is sort of a derailment.

What I mean is when racism is being discussed, whether overt acts or simply statements of implied racial bias, I for one don't have much interest in whether or not the person or persons responsible are "Racists".

This may sound counterintuitive, and if does then maybe some clarification about how we address racism, and even white supremacy itself is needed.

Here's the point, it's not about identifying people as racists. It is not even about bashing people here on the forum who are white and making comments others or at least I feel are racist (And these comments were in fact made).

If you are the person who made such comments and if you feel that others telling you they (The comments) are in fact racist, and this causes you to feel uncomfortable you'll probably start defending your position because you feel you are under attack for no reason, because hey, "I never said I was a racist".

When it comes down to things like holding implicit biases, and even benefiting from white privilege, the question of whether someone here on the forum intentionally posted something bigoted is practically irrelevant.

This is a sensitive subject, and many folks start to interpret any mention of racism as a conflict, and this discussion of "Rap Music and Lesser Mammals" is certainly no different. So if someone gets called out as being racist or at least making a racist comment or statement that others feel has a harmful or hurtful impact, his being a "good person" isn't going to make that comment or statement vanish or less impactful.

Normally when any of us get called out for being racists and/or for making any type of hurtful comment (Whether it racist, misogynist or ableist) we take it as a personal attack on ourselves and our character, and then we simply make the situation all about us, and not about the bigger picture of how we can take responsibility for our own role with regards to dealing with -isms.

So when we we say a particular person "doesn't have a racist bone in their body" it can lead us to overlook the impact of what they've actual said or done and focus instead on their intentions, and as we all know intent isn't magical. So than we try to oversimplify it, and separate ourselves from the real bad guys, because good people can't say or do something wrong.

Maybe we should stop prioritizing our feelings over the pain others deal with everyday with regards to racism and maybe start to address the real and very valid concerns about how comments others deem racist contribute to the oppression they feel and the actual impact these comments have and how it affects them.

At least that is how I've come to look at it, or at least how I've come to understand the situation myself and explain it to my son, because I too have been in positions in my life when I've made comments that others have found hurtful, and it took me time to realize that the best thing I could do was stop and listen as to what is was I explicitly said that was so hurtful to someone else rather than try to defend my position or comment by, "Splaining" my intent or doubling down on my position.


This is a poem by Wendy Cope that I like called, "Differences of Opinion". It has to do more with the issue of 'Man-splaing" rather than racism, but it came to mind while I was writing the above post so I thought it might be fitting here as well.

"HE TELLS HER"

He tells her that the earth is flat...
He knows the facts, and that is that.
In altercations fierce and long
She tries her best to prove him wrong.
But he has learned to argue well.
He calls her arguments unsound
And often asks her not to yell.
She cannot win. He stand his ground.

The planet goes on being round.


PS. Bossa Nova Rules!

edited 1x to correct some of my horrendous grammar.

Thank you for your reply, Bruno. It really is good to see your posts here again. :smilenod:

I didn't mean for my comment to be a derailment, what I intended with it was to point out that there are things being implied in this thread that were not explicitly said, and if such value is placed on things being said with every letter, then it is unfair to expect that people with different views adhere to that while you (general you) don't. I don't expect a racist to come out and own the label, but that wasn't really the point.

But anyways, this has been enlightening.

PS. I'm weird, I know. Imagine hating bossa nova in Brazil!  ;)

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 08, 2016, 12:28:29 AM
I think then entire subject of "hating rap doesn't make you racist" is a misdirect. Obviously not; Everyone has musical preferences. The argument here is that posting topics online to justify your hate of rap with others who hate rap is generally about systemic racial bias that constitutes racism.

To be honest, I wasn't aware that rap was so strongly associated with black culture in the USA, with such implications.       
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Bad Penny II

#163
As a person of a people that have been insulted in this thread I forgive the trespasses, I hope you learn though.
I don't know of anyone else here whose been  personally wronged  besides Scissorlegs who is somewhat French.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Magdalena

Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 08, 2016, 03:40:24 PM
As a person of a people that have been insulted in this thread I forgive the trespasses, I hope you learn though.
I don't know of anyone else here whose been  personally wronged  besides Scissorlegs who is somewhat French.

Our beloved pudding/spider/robot/penny . . . hasn't been around lately....

I'm glad to see you again.  :)

If it were a matter of only being offended, it wouldn't be so bad, but n the USA, racism is a matter of life and death. Police killing civilians...civilians killing police...civilian killing civilian.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant