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I Hate Rap

Started by Kekerusey, September 26, 2016, 01:49:53 PM

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Kekerusey

I was into dance in the late 70s, early 80s and I didn't mind very early rap where it felt like more of a lark but I grew to hate it as it became increasingly misogynistic and every [expletive deleted] song had an obligatory rap section in it. It was basically the music industry's obsession with rap that turned me away from dance and made me look for something different which is how I ended up being into what I call nuMetal (bands like Bullet for my Valentine, Linkin Park, Evanescence, Spineshank, Godsmack. Atreyu, Avenged Sevenfold, Halestorm, The Prety Reckless and more)

So no, I don't like rap but I think I'm gonna have to make an exception for this guy.



Keke
J C Rocks (An Aspiring Author's Journey)
The Abyssal Void War Book #1: Stars, Hide Your Fires


Asmodean

I don't think you are the only one ever to call those particular bands' music "Nu Metal"  :P

That said, I like some beats and lyrics of "classic" rap music. There is a song or two by Eminem (Sing for the Moment, for instance) and some "alternative" rap, like Twenty One Pilots, the abovementioned Linkin Park and Rage Against the Machine, just to name a few.

"Bitches and guns" rap, however, I generally dislike whatever the skill of the performer.

The song you linked to... It's not bad, but even being what it is, the arpeggiator lacks imagination.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Kekerusey

Quote from: Asmodean on September 26, 2016, 04:38:16 PMThe song you linked to... It's not bad, but even being what it is, the arpeggiator lacks imagination.

Fair enough ... I just thought it was good that somone did intelligent rap. Obviously I'm aware that can't be a first. Had to look up "arpeggiator".

Keke
J C Rocks (An Aspiring Author's Journey)
The Abyssal Void War Book #1: Stars, Hide Your Fires


Icarus

Quote from: Kekerusey on September 26, 2016, 08:48:10 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on September 26, 2016, 04:38:16 PMThe song you linked to... It's not bad, but even being what it is, the arpeggiator lacks imagination.

Fair enough ... I just thought it was good that somone did intelligent rap. Obviously I'm aware that can't be a first. Had to look up "arpeggiator".

Keke

Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

Pasta Chick

It's like any other genre - the stuff that makes it to mainstream radio is 95% complete shit.

There is some fantastic rap out there, both "old school" and current.

Asmodean

Quote from: Kekerusey on September 26, 2016, 08:48:10 PM
Had to look up "arpeggiator"
Keyboardist speak, that. It's a circuit (Or a software feature) on a synthesizer/keyboard that allows you to repeat a certain pattern of chords with octave alteration and the like. Basically, it makes the tune play itself and allows the DJ/sampler/keyboardist to concentrate on modulating it. In lazier cases, they don't really bother. There are songs out there which can be played by holding down two or three synthesizer keys pretty much for the duration, given some minor pre-programming effort.

This repeater-like use of arpeggiators is not necessarilly particularly common in rap music, but quite often, there is little else going on there apart from the vocals. That makes unimaginative arpeggios that much more noticable.

As far as taste in music goes, mine is wildly eclectic. Generally, I appreciate talent. It doesn't even have to be musical talent as such, as it can often be substituted with certain skills in computer technology. Basically, to ruin a song for me, it needs to either have a completely horrible set of shallow teenager-y "these problems matter" lyrics, a melody which an orangutan could concievably learn to play or both. Then again, there are exceptions to these exceptions, but do let us not dwell.

...Also, the nails-in-your-head-saxophone-rape-variety of Jazz is just evil.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Kekerusey

OK on the "arpeggiator"

Quote from: Asmodean on September 27, 2016, 02:55:33 PMAs far as taste in music goes, mine is wildly eclectic. Generally, I appreciate talent. It doesn't even have to be musical talent as such, as it can often be substituted with certain skills in computer technology. Basically, to ruin a song for me, it needs to either have a completely horrible set of shallow teenager-y "these problems matter" lyrics, a melody which an orangutan could concievably learn to play or both. Then again, there are exceptions to these exceptions, but do let us not dwell.

Meh! Eclectic musical tastes is just one of those things IMO ... a BBC news presenter called Andrew Marr has what is described as an eclectic taste in music, for the most part I just think his taste in music is just weird (I'm not a fan). I think "eclectic" is just one of those words people use to say their taste is different (implicitly better) than <whoever>, I prefer to describe my musical taste as "catholic" (small "c") which I think is more descriptive even though, these days, it's probably wrong. I'd like to think I appreciate good music too but I also believe that "talent" is objectively non-assessable, when applied to art forms, an entirely subjective concept. As I think I said to "No One", if that wasn't true then it should be possible to derive a formula that would indicate what is or is not good in that art, music in this case. Most of the music I like seems to change my feelings/emotions for example I love both the romance of slow soul and the aggression of screamo nuMetal ... I'm probably wrong :)

Quote from: Asmodean on September 27, 2016, 02:55:33 PM...Also, the nails-in-your-head-saxophone-rape-variety of Jazz is just evil.

Now that you're gonna have to explain since I have no idea what you mean.

Keke
J C Rocks (An Aspiring Author's Journey)
The Abyssal Void War Book #1: Stars, Hide Your Fires


Magdalena


"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Asmodean

#8
Quote from: Kekerusey on September 27, 2016, 04:10:01 PM
I think "eclectic" is just one of those words people use to say their taste is different (implicitly better) than <whoever>
Implies no particular source preference.

Quote
I appreciate good music too but I also believe that "talent" is objectively non-assessable, when applied to art forms, an entirely subjective concept.
Certainly. I define it as a person having a good, to a less-than-common-degree, ability to perform a certain task, where "common" relates to the average among practitioners in that particular area.

Quote
Now that you're gonna have to explain since I have no idea what you mean.
There is a sub-genre or two of jazz where the brass sounds like, to quote GTA 5, "...someone strangling a clarinet player"

...I don't like it. It's way too... Cutting? Unrefined..? Overly-jangly..? I struggle to put the right words to it right now, so have a far-from-the-worst example, which is still pretty good at illustrating the point I'm trying to make;

(ca 7 minutes into it)
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tom62

Quote from: Asmodean on September 27, 2016, 02:55:33 PM
...Also, the nails-in-your-head-saxophone-rape-variety of Jazz is just evil.

Yes, yes.... I know exactly what you mean. Those Jazzy saxophone players are a crime against humanity.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Magdalena

Quote from: Icarus on September 27, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals..
Icarus, may I borrow this? But I would like to use it under different circumstances. Next time I find myself amongst refined people, and someone makes a stupid comment, I would like to whisper in my friend's ear, "What he just said is nothing but noise made by a lesser mammal."

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Icarus

Use it at will Mags.  I think such an expression is not profound but perhaps moderately descriptive.......Well, in the musical realm that depends on ones tastes, actually..

Magdalena

Quote from: Icarus on October 01, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
Use it at will Mags.  I think such an expression is not profound but perhaps moderately descriptive.......Well, in the musical realm that depends on ones tastes, actually..
Moderately descriptive of what, exactly?
You said, "Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals..."
I understand your opinion, "Rap is not music." What I don't understand is what you mean exactly when you say, this ([music to me] noise to you) is made by "lesser mammals." What is a lesser mammal? I can't seem to associate the word with anything other than...(maybe) a terrorist...but you think a rapper is a lesser mammal? Why?
Quote from: Icarus on September 27, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Magdalena

#13
Maybe I should explain a little bit where I'm coming from.  :notsure:
Some people have been trying to get rid of "black" music by any means necessary, and for a very long time! Here's a brief history of it:
[Music Censorship – A Timeline]

Quote1955

15,000 letters, mostly written by young adults, are sent to Chicago rock stations accusing them of playing "dirty" records. Radio station WABB runs editorials call "About The Music You won't Hear on WABB." The editorials promise that the station will censor itself of all controverisal music, especially rhythm and blues – in other words, "black" music.

1956

A banner year for censoring music from radio. ABC radio bans from all of its network affiliates Billie Holiday's song "Love For Sale" because of its prostitution theme.

1955

In one week's time during April, Chicago radio stations receive 15,000 complaint letters protesting their broadcast of rock music as part of an organized campaign. The letters call for the station to remove controversial songs from their play lists.

Variety runs a three-part series on what they term "lee-ics" or R&B sons, with obscene lyrics, calling for censorship for the recording industry. The articles compare these songs to dirty postcards and chastise the music industry for selling "their lee-ic garbage by declaring that's what kids want."

1958

The mutual Broadcasting System drops all rock and roll records from its network music programs, calling it "distorted, monotonous, noisy music."

1990

Members of the rap group N.W.A. receive a letter from the F.B.I saying that the agency did not appreciate the song "Fuck the Police." Law enforcement groups across the country agree.
....

The movie, Straight Outta Compton, which  depictis the career of gangsta rap group N.W.A., explains that in more detail:
(...and probably why things are the way they are right now...) :shifty:



The full song:


Vocabulary:

Rock music is a genre of popular music that originated as "rock and roll" in the United States in the 1950s, and developed into a range of different styles in the 1960s and later, particularly in the United Kingdom and the United States.[1][2] It has its roots in 1940s' and 1950s' rock and roll, itself heavily influenced by blues, rhythm and blues and country music. Rock music also drew strongly on a number of other genres such as electric blues and folk, and incorporated influences from jazz, classical and other musical sources.

Rhythm and blues, often abbreviated as R&B or RnB, is a genre of popular African-American music that originated in the 1940s.[1] The term was originally used by record companies to describe recordings marketed predominantly to urban African Americans, at a time when "urbane, rocking, jazz based music with a heavy, insistent beat" was becoming more popular.[2] In the commercial rhythm and blues music typical of the 1950s through the 1970s, the bands usually consisted of piano, one or two guitars, bass, drums, saxophone, and sometimes background vocalists. R&B lyrical themes often encapsulate the African-American experience of pain and the quest for freedom and joy.[3] Lyrics focus heavily on the themes of triumphs and failures in terms of relationships, freedom, economics, aspirations, and sex.

Rapping is also used in Kwaito music, a genre that originated in Johannesburg, South Africa, and is composed of hip-hop elements. Another form of rap that predates hip hop was Muhammad Ali's rhythmic poetry used to taunt his opponents in the 1960s and 1970s.
Rapping first gained popularity in the U.S. in the 1970s as a kind of street art, especially among African American teenagers.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Kekerusey

Quote from: Magdalena on October 01, 2016, 07:24:59 AMSome people have been trying to get rid of "black" music by any means necessary, and for a very long time!

Just so you know, not me ... I may not like rap but when I say that I am referring primarily to mainstream rap which I see as, firstly, somewhat misogynistic and, secondly, abrasive (the way you can get a perfectly good song with a section of "jarring" rap in the middle). I used to absolutely love soul ... I started off with Motown/Stax, moved on through standard soul, and disco to funk and jazz funk. I was a soul boy, loud and proud and it was electronic (garage and similar) and the mainstream adoption of rap that made me cast around for something different. I loved "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" at the time and liked the show's music, that gave me a way in and that's how I found nuMetal. The one, for me, unfortunate thing for me is that the group I first got into, Lostprophets, turned out to fronted by a man imprisoned for paedophilia.

Anyway, I still like all the soul, funk, dance and jazz funk I used to and there is even some stuff that comes out today that I like (favourites include Beyonce's "Love on Top", DNCE's "Cake By The Ocean", "Pharrell William's, "Happy" and most of Timberlake's recent stuff) but it tends to be the exception rather than anything else these days and usually stuff that harks back to the late seventies.

BTW, no idea if it's in the US, but we (my wife and I) went to see "Motown The Musical" last weekend, entertaining but overpriced ... and no rap :)

Keke
J C Rocks (An Aspiring Author's Journey)
The Abyssal Void War Book #1: Stars, Hide Your Fires