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I Hate Rap

Started by Kekerusey, September 26, 2016, 01:49:53 PM

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Davin

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:08:56 PM
Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 06:37:24 PM
Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.
"Just saying." Sure, you're just saying a meaningless sentence that addressed none of the arguments presented for no reason...

The memes you posted essentially called Kekerusey a racist.
Did they? I don't share your conclusion. I think they make fun of the "some of my best friends are black," type of statement.

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 08:24:12 PMI would post the same comment anywhere on the net and I would say it straight to any of my black friends.

I had hoped to be proved wrong about this. Even though you posted directly after Kekerusey, and he had every reason to believe that your post is directed at him, and is calling him out as a racist, you're going with the "who, me?" feigned innocence ploy, rather than even attempting to support your mud-throwing memes with anything substantial.
No. I am not going with the "who, me?" ploy at all. I am quite clearly and openly mocking him mentioning having black friends. That you assume that it was something else, is your problem and not mine. Especially since you can see me saying what I was doing in the very post you just replied to. You know, the bit where I said, "I think they make fun of the "some of my best friends are black," type of statement." then quoted him saying something similar.

Quote from: RecusantI think that if you were able to support your not-so-subtle accusation of racism, you'd have been quick to cite it. The fact that you haven't speaks directly to the validity of the accusation.
What accusation is that again? The one you irrationally created in your head? Sorry, I don't see why I have to support or defend your straw men.

Quote from: Recusant
Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:08:56 PM
Quote from: RecusantCan you cite anything he's posted in this thread or elsewhere that supports that?
Is there anything that supports your assumptions? Shouldn't that be on you?

My "assumption" is that you directed those memes at Kekerusey. Are you telling me that they just happened to get posted directly after his post, and have nothing to do with him? Are you telling me that they do not strongly imply that Kekerusey is a racist?
No, your assumption that I was calling him a racist when I didn't. I'm not going to support me calling him a racist when I didn't.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Davin

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PMA person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist.
Can you cite a post where a person said that if a person hates rap, then they are a racist?

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Pasta Chick


xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 05:48:21 PM
...And where have the moderator been all this time? I would like to know if the rules have changed. Are people gonna get red letters only when they are reported? When you, the moderator, feels they've broken the rules? or only when they offend you personally--the moderators?

The post or any other wasn't reported by anyone so it comes to the attention of those who read the thread. I've been really busy lately so I haven't read it all yet.

I personally don't like using mod red, but have edited my post. 
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Magdalena

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
I do not condone making assumptions about people based on broad-brush inference.

"She's blonde and has a southern accent, so she's a dummy."

"He's young and black and has interacted with the police, so he's a thug."

"He hates rap music and wants to tell other people about it, so he's a racist."

None of those three statements will get a nod from me.
Then I guess the answer to it is to not masquarade what you say, just say it the way No one does. I have more respect for someone who says what they think and feel directly, then for someone who kinda, sorta, said something in a certain tone, but when confronted, denies it.

I have more of a problem with Icarus, then Keke. Like the man who was fired from Univision for saying, "Michelle Obama looks like she's part of the cast of 'Planet of the Apes.'" At least he apologised and said, "there's "no excuse" to make a comment "that could be interpreted as offensive or racist during these volatile times we're living in." If Icarus could just accept that his words have been interpreted as offensive, or racist, whether he meant it, or not, I would respect him a little bit more.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 06, 2016, 05:31:13 PM
I hear you, Mags. I have felt out of place here just for being a woman for a while.  :-\

I certainly don't think that a woman should feel out of place here - without women guys would turn into Neanderthals.  We need you!

Ecurb Noselrub

Rap is rap and rock is rock
Gonna rap-rock 'round the clock
Don't matter what the color my skin
Rap-rock out and rap-rock in

The Man he say I don't belong
He don't like the way my song
moves my soul, my heart, my mind
He don't know just what I find

All I know is what I feel
All I know is what is real
So I go rappin' every day
When I work and when I play

Rap-rock day and rap-rock night
Rap-rock wrong and rap-rock right
Black is black and white is white
But we is one and all is tight.





Asmodean

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
A person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist. Assuming otherwise is remarkably like the blindly judgmental behavior of racists themselves. I do not condone making assumptions about people based on broad-brush inference.
This, as we have already sort-of established.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 11:12:55 PM
I have more of a problem with Icarus, then Keke. Like the man who was fired from Univision for saying, "Michelle Obama looks like she's part of the cast of 'Planet of the Apes.'" At least he apologised and said, "there's "no excuse" to make a comment "that could be interpreted as offensive or racist during these volatile times we're living in." If Icarus could just accept that his words have been interpreted as offensive, or racist, whether he meant it, or not, I would respect him a little bit more.
That apology sucks. "The times are volatile, so let's all be politically correct with each other" is not something I, for one, buy. Personally, I think it was well within reason for Icarus to put his statements in a broader context, but I can't see how he hasn't accepted that some may have found them offensive. He just does not apologize for something he does not feel sorry about. That's a mark up in my book, at the very least.

That said, I agree that playing what you may percieve to be clever word games is not a good way to get your message across to a non-uniform audience, but that one is a coin of two sides. As some people could give up writing thickly between the lines, others could give up reading there. As a disclaimer, I'm not explicitly talking about any one here; that is my general view, one I expressed on HAF several times in the past (Usually when people read all sorts of stuff into words that meant exactly what they said, and nothing more ;) )

One still does have to deal with the metaphors, of course, but in cases where they can be interpreted in contradicting ways, I see no point in making a big deal out of a certain interpretation.

Quote from: No one on October 06, 2016, 09:06:00 PM
I don't care what patch of Earth you call home. I don't care what god you believe, or don't believe in! I don't care how much money you have! I don't care what sex you are, or what sex you are attracted to! People suck! All. of. Them!
That's sort of what my view of random individuals looks like, except that I take it one step further by not caring whether or not they suck.



Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Asmodean

#143
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 07, 2016, 12:26:48 AM
Rap is rap and rock is rock
Gonna rap-rock 'round the clock
Don't matter what the color my skin
Rap-rock out and rap-rock in

The Man he say I don't belong
He don't like the way my song
moves my soul, my heart, my mind
He don't know just what I find

All I know is what I feel
All I know is what is real
So I go rappin' every day
When I work and when I play

Rap-rock day and rap-rock night
Rap-rock wrong and rap-rock right
Black is black and white is white
But we is one and all is tight.

I like it... Might write one meself. A critique of the polite society, methink. I shall call it

Banners, labels and lies

I don't rap, nor do I rock
There's a hole in my left sock
Don't care what your banners say
Another flag - a different day

The songs of anger, fear and hate
Those politicians, who debate
Degrading culture and despair
Over those things they can't repair

I see no meaning in their lies
Nor trust the tears in their eyes
Their fancy slogans' hollow words
They don't strike any of my chords

My music softly sings its tune
From mathematics' crystal loom
It spins its notes in atmosphere
That is the sound I like to hear
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Papasito Bruno

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 06, 2016, 09:41:33 PM
In national news...

FL Man Gets Life In Prison After Killing Teen Over Loud Music

Here's an excerpt from the article Pasta Chick linked regarding the murder of Jordan Davis...words spoken by the murderer just before he shot and killed Jordan.

QuoteIn the courtroom, Dunn said he drove to the convenience store that day to purchase a bottle of wine with his fiancée when he was offended by the loud hip hop.

"He looked at his girlfriend and said, 'I hate that thug music,'" prosecutor John Guy said.

Here's a quote from an older post I found here at HAF after conducting a quick search about "Hate" & "Rap Music".

QuoteHonestly I find black people to be annoying, a lot of the time. I do not like sitting near them on the bus. I do not like the way they dress. I do not like the way that they butcher the English language. I think their music is incredibly stupid (and I mean it significantly lacks style, musical ability, innovation, new ideas, aka rap music)

http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=13735.msg299116#msg299116



Maybe this makes it clearer, actually brings into focus why these words "I Hate Rap" and similar statements are found to be racist.

"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

Davin

Quote from: Asmodean on October 07, 2016, 07:37:23 AM
Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
A person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist. Assuming otherwise is remarkably like the blindly judgmental behavior of racists themselves. I do not condone making assumptions about people based on broad-brush inference.
This, as we have already sort-of established.
Being that you support this and that no one else has been able to, can you cite a post by someone else in this thread that this statement is supposed to be addressing?

I offer up that no one in this thread has said that hating on rap, even publicly expressing their hate of rap, in itself means that a person is a racist. The only quote I can find of someone saying something similar is Recusant as an example of statements he won't nod to. Even if you find one, I would hope that there are at least half as many statements it is addressing as opposed to the amount of times this sentiment has been brought up. But I'd feel a lot better if there were at leas one. If you cannot cite an example of what this statement is meant to address, then what is the point of people bringing this sentiment up so often? Not one person here has disagreed with it.

Otherwise, it just looks like many people are not honestly listening to what the actual points are.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Asmodean

Quote from: Davin on October 07, 2016, 05:19:22 PM
...
I will come back to the points once I'm on proper hardware again, but I wanted to make it clear that my reference in this instance was of a general kind.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Davin

Quote from: Asmodean on October 07, 2016, 06:38:48 PM
Quote from: Davin on October 07, 2016, 05:19:22 PM
...
I will come back to the points once I'm on proper hardware again, but I wanted to make it clear that my reference in this instance was of a general kind.
Well, I know you have discussed actual points here, but that's not what I'm interested at the moment.

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
A person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist.

I'm curious as to why this statement right there (or similar statements), keep popping up in the discussion. I mean you can keep discussing the actual points, if you want, but right now, why this statement keeps popping up is what I'm interested in. What in this thread has someone said that that statement is supposed to address. If it only popped up once, I wouldn't be asking about it, but it's popped up a few times now, some from the same person.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

xSilverPhinx

My problem with the assumption that people who dislike rap are racist, even if subtly, is that it does generalise that idea to an entire category of people (those who don't like rap). I've read the thread and it did give me the impression that there is an underlying assumption that if you hate rap, then you hate everything young urban blacks stand for.   

Can someone point me to a post in this thread where somebody actually said that they are in fact racist? I don't think you can, because nobody said it, yet people are assuming things that are probably misplaced. If there is a failure of communication here then it can go both ways...

I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Magdalena

I think most people who continue to say that just because one persons says, "I hate rap" doesn't make them racist--don't live in the United States, so they don't know how most people who say that, are just masquerading what they truly want to say, but don't have the balls to say it, and when confronted won't admit it either. So what can we do? All we can do is say, "Take off your mask, and say what you really want to say."

I don't know how the statement "I hate rap" is viewed around the world, but in the USA, it just adds wood to a fire that's been burning for a long time. We don't need that.

OK, going back to Icarus:
...Because this is where all this started.

I asked him, why are you calling another human being a lesser mammal? Maybe he thought, why are you asking me this? Isn't it obvious? Then, he thought, oh, wait, maybe Mags is also one of those lesser mammals who hears rap in a very large older model pickup trucks with decibel sound intensity, enormous speakers, powerful amplifier, volts, huge auxiliary batteries, and huge alternators...and is offended by the comment I made.—I had no idea, all this time I thought you were the civilized type! So, he apologized to me.  :-\

Icarus hates rap and everything related to those who drive these, "hellish machines and terrorize the area with all that noise" –His words. Maybe he is worried that little girls, who are sugar and spice, and everything nice, will fall in love with one of this "Lesser mammals, semi humans, social misfits, insensitive mongrels, who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace."—His words. He's right; I mean what woman wouldn't want to fall in love with a man who will disturb her peace? I did.  :grin:

He said, "I have not apologized for inventing labels for insensitive mongrels who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace." He makes it sound as if all he's doing is "inventing labels" No, he's not "inventing" labels, those labels have been around, and some of us are telling him, "ENOUGH!" Those labels contribute to police brutality and discrimination. Like Pasta Chick said, "...there is also subconscious social racism. This a well documented thing. The sort of racism where you really don't know why, but hiring John James Smith III seems like a better idea than hiring Monique Makida Balewa."

Anyways...
There is an ugly hurricane passing where he lives, I hope he is fine.

~The angry hippie needs peace, now.

I have covered it, for those of you with a weak constitution.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
It's a song/video by Ice Cube, basically saying that the media, government, parents, are blaming gangster rap for every little negative thing that happens.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant