Windows 10, The Continuing Adventure

[Kekerusey]

And NT was the pinnacle (IMHO) of the Windows system.

Ugh! I did my MCSE in that, it was tough going them it's even worse now. That said, in interface terms, I absolutely hate 2012.

Keke

[OldGit]

W10 came with my new laptop.  I agree that the start menu is a mess, but the rest is mainly very good.  It seems to be faster then W7, although it's hard to know how much of that is down to the new machine.  I'm happy with it, anyhow.

[Tom62]

I'm still on Windows 7, OS X Mavericks and Linux Mint 16. All three OSes have their Pros and Cons. Tried Windows 8 once for a few weeks and I hated it. Windows 10 seems to be a bit better, but for the moment I don't have any use for it.

[Davin]

Practically everyone I know who try Linux end up hating Windows.

I think that kind of thing depends on your social circle ... my friends are pretty much the opposite (IT engineers all of us, Windows users and a bit "meh" about Linux).

I tried Linux, long time ago, for six months and eventually ran back to Windows because I wanted to actually do things.

That's odd that you weren't able to do things. I am able to do everything in Linux that I can in Windows. Many things are nicer in Linux, a few things are not as good as windows, but overall, it's better. I don't hate Windows, I have to use it for my current job, but I could do all the same things in Linux that I do for work and that includes the C# development, though I would still have to test on Windows machines since that is the target platform for the company.

Recently I had to make a feed for a camera available to remote computer, and I made one real quick in Linux which was way easier than when I had to make it again a day later when they told me it had to run on a Windows machine.

[Asmodean]

Practically everyone I know who try Linux end up hating Windows.

I think that kind of thing depends on your social circle ... my friends are pretty much the opposite (IT engineers all of us, Windows users and a bit "meh" about Linux).

I tried Linux, long time ago, for six months and eventually ran back to Windows because I wanted to actually do things.

I still occasionally try various Linux distros and it always ends up the same ... I install it, I look at it for a while thinking "that's pretty", maybe even play a few games but eventually I shut it down and get on with the things I need to do. Guess I'm just a Windows guy and yes, I really quite like Win 10

+1 to all of the above.

[Kekerusey]

That's odd that you weren't able to do things. I am able to do everything in Linux that I can in Windows. Many things are nicer in Linux, a few things are not as good as windows, but overall, it's better. I don't hate Windows, I have to use it for my current job, but I could do all the same things in Linux that I do for work and that includes the C# development, though I would still have to test on Windows machines since that is the target platform for the company.

Depends what you want to do and how you want to do it. Windows is far better for the things I want to do and much easier to do it. [Shrug] Job done IMO.

Recently I had to make a feed for a camera available to remote computer, and I made one real quick in Linux which was way easier than when I had to make it again a day later when they told me it had to run on a Windows machine.

For you I'm sure, for me I have few doubts I would find it easier with Windows.

None of this means I deny that Linux is or can be a good OS, it's simply not for me. Windows is easier and better IMO.

Keke

[Davin]

That's odd that you weren't able to do things. I am able to do everything in Linux that I can in Windows. Many things are nicer in Linux, a few things are not as good as windows, but overall, it's better. I don't hate Windows, I have to use it for my current job, but I could do all the same things in Linux that I do for work and that includes the C# development, though I would still have to test on Windows machines since that is the target platform for the company.

Depends what you want to do and how you want to do it. Windows is far better for the things I want to do and much easier to do it. [Shrug] Job done IMO.

That doesn't make sense, I haven't found anything I cannot easily do in Linux that I can do in Windows. But things like building an OS, GUI, and applications optimized for my hardware is much easier to do in Linux (Gentoo is awesome), which is something you can't do at all in Windows. I mean, Blender is nice in Windows, but an optimized Blender in Linux is so much better. Locking down my system is much easier to do in Linux than in Windows. For regular things like web browsing, document writing, 3D modeling/texturing/rigging/animating, drawing, video editing, programming, etc... everything is the same as in Windows and most of the apps I use on either side are available or easy enough to make available on Linux. For others, I can use a replacement application. While multiple desktops can be done in Windows, it's more difficult to set up and it's not as well done as in Linux. Doing admin things is also much easier in Linux.

But now I'm curious in what contexts are things easier to do for you than in Windows than in Linux. And what specifically is far better and easier to do in Windows than in Linux.

Recently I had to make a feed for a camera available to remote computer, and I made one real quick in Linux which was way easier than when I had to make it again a day later when they told me it had to run on a Windows machine.

For you I'm sure, for me I have few doubts I would find it easier with Windows.

None of this means I deny that Linux is or can be a good OS, it's simply not for me. Windows is easier and better IMO.

I suppose experience and knowledge do play a large part. But one thing is pretty significant difference, the control I get over the camera in Windows is about 75% of the control I get over the camera in Linux. Windows does fine when it comes to basic operations, and Linux does take a little more getting used to the basic operations, but once you want/need to do advanced things, Windows becomes more cumbersome and Linux becomes easier. The more advanced and/or complicated a task is, the easier Linux is over Windows. Don't get me wrong, I can find ways to do the same things in Windows, it's just takes a lot more work and a lot more experience with Windows, while in Linux, I can pretty much just do what I want and not worry about the OS doing stupid things.

[Kekerusey]

That doesn't make sense, I haven't found anything I cannot easily do in Linux that I can do in Windows.

That's the point I'm making ... YOU haven't. I'm not you. My friends are not you. Businesses that I work for use Windows primarily as their desktop and, largely, servers ... they're not you either. Linux may be easy for you but it is not that easy for many others ... this really isn't rocket science.

As far as I am concerned, pretty much everything that I run under windows works better than stuff under Linux, I vastly prefer the Windows interface, I like the fact that virtually everything has a relatively common user interface and I vastly prefer Microsoft Office over any other word processing suite out there.

Don't get me wrong, I use a lot of open source stuff and (as already said) I have mucked about with many distros of Linux. I just don't like it, you do ... it's that simple. But when I do play about with Linux I almost always select KDE because it's more Windows-like.

I suppose experience and knowledge do play a large part. But one thing is pretty significant difference, the control I get over the camera in Windows is about 75% of the control I get over the camera in Linux. Windows does fine when it comes to basic operations, and Linux does take a little more getting used to the basic operations, but once you want/need to do advanced things, Windows becomes more cumbersome and Linux becomes easier. The more advanced and/or complicated a task is, the easier Linux is over Windows. Don't get me wrong, I can find ways to do the same things in Windows, it's just takes a lot more work and a lot more experience with Windows, while in Linux, I can pretty much just do what I want and not worry about the OS doing stupid things.

All of which is fine ... for you, not me. I prefer the experience and the control I get from Windows. As far as I'm concerned Windows just works, works on the latest hardware with the fastest drivers that make full use of the hardware they are written for. Linux drivers may well be easy to write but my experience of them suggests they are mostly generic which further suggests they do not use the full capabilities of the hardware they have been written for. OTOH every manufacturer pretty much writes drivers for their hardware to run under Windows and, especially with gaming hardware, do so with the aim of providing the user with the fastest possible bang per buck, it's in their interest to do so since it means users will come back and buy the next iteration.

Yes, Windows has faults but only a numpty would claim that's not true for Linux ... ultimately I'm fine with Windows, warts 'n all, because it's what I like, it's what prefer and it's what I work with.

Unfortunately, having just been made redundant (thx Brexiteers), I now have to learn more Linux ... and I had so hoped to carry on cruising to retirement. Ah well!

Keke

[Davin]

That doesn't make sense, I haven't found anything I cannot easily do in Linux that I can do in Windows.

That's the point I'm making ... YOU haven't. I'm not you. My friends are not you. Businesses that I work for use Windows primarily as their desktop and, largely, servers ... they're not you either. Linux may be easy for you but it is not that easy for many others ... this really isn't rocket science.

What is the purpose of these statements? They seem entirely useless to me.

As far as I am concerned, pretty much everything that I run under windows works better than stuff under Linux, I vastly prefer the Windows interface, I like the fact that virtually everything has a relatively common user interface and I vastly prefer Microsoft Office over any other word processing suite out there.

I was just interested in examples. I gave some examples to clarify my position to show that I'm not just saying things out of ignorance. I was just hoping for the same, I was hoping for something useful and interesting.

Don't get me wrong, I use a lot of open source stuff and (as already said) I have mucked about with many distros of Linux. I just don't like it, you do ... it's that simple. But when I do play about with Linux I almost always select KDE because it's more Windows-like.

It's fine to have preferences, but I thought it would be fine to discuss those preferences. Also, some of your statements imply objective rather than subjective qualities.

I suppose experience and knowledge do play a large part. But one thing is pretty significant difference, the control I get over the camera in Windows is about 75% of the control I get over the camera in Linux. Windows does fine when it comes to basic operations, and Linux does take a little more getting used to the basic operations, but once you want/need to do advanced things, Windows becomes more cumbersome and Linux becomes easier. The more advanced and/or complicated a task is, the easier Linux is over Windows. Don't get me wrong, I can find ways to do the same things in Windows, it's just takes a lot more work and a lot more experience with Windows, while in Linux, I can pretty much just do what I want and not worry about the OS doing stupid things.

All of which is fine ... for you, not me. I prefer the experience and the control I get from Windows. As far as I'm concerned Windows just works, works on the latest hardware with the fastest drivers that make full use of the hardware they are written for. Linux drivers may well be easy to write but my experience of them suggests they are mostly generic which further suggests they do not use the full capabilities of the hardware they have been written for. OTOH every manufacturer pretty much writes drivers for their hardware to run under Windows and, especially with gaming hardware, do so with the aim of providing the user with the fastest possible bang per buck, it's in their interest to do so since it means users will come back and buy the next iteration.

This is a fine bit of reasoning to make when one lacks the knowledge and experience of how things really work, so I don't really fault you for that. I just caution you against spreading it around like that because it's misinformation. For example with the camera thing I developed recently, controlling the frame rate is not as free form in Windows as it is in Linux, because the Windows drivers no longer allow setting the frame rate, I had to do some extra programming to attain the same effect in Windows. You know, as a specific example instead of a generic blanket statement of where Linux offers more control than Windows does.

Of course for most devices, there is more and less hindered control under Linux, but there are some examples where that is not true. However, I find that overall, the performance is better under my Linux system than when I boot it up under Windows. If compare the frame rates between the same games running on Linux and Windows on the same system with the same settings, Linux overall wins by 10-20 FPS (not much, but Linux is objectively better), but there are a few games that run better under Windows.

Yes, Windows has faults but only a numpty would claim that's not true for Linux ... ultimately I'm fine with Windows, warts 'n all, because it's what I like, it's what prefer and it's what I work with.

I don't get the reason for these statements.

Unfortunately, having just been made redundant (thx Brexiteers), I now have to learn more Linux ... and I had so hoped to carry on cruising to retirement. Ah well.

Don't worry about it, it's very easy. What I find is, that the better, more knowledgeable developers start liking Linux more than any other OS when they start using it. Though I think it should go without saying that there are exceptions. My boss, for one example, is a great developer but he doesn't like Linux more than Windows.

[Asmodean]

The Great Asmo is also a corporate whore. 

[Tom62]

I hope that this thread doesn't turn into OS Wars  .
If that should happen then I'll try to remain neutral.

[Kekerusey]

Whatever ...

I give up, you win!

Linux is the best operating system ever devised by man, beast or demon (probably by God) and the fact that many, many people (many of them highly technical individuals like me) CHOOSE to use Windows in preference is an irrational and inexplicable blip on the curved surface of time and space

Keke

[Firebird]

I hope that this thread doesn't turn into OS Wars  .
If that should happen then I'll try to remain neutral.

OpenBSD or bust!
/s

[Davin]

Whatever ...

I give up, you win!

Linux is the best operating system ever devised by man, beast or deman (probably by God) and the fact that many, many people (many of them highly technical individuals like me) CHOOSE to use Windows in preference is an irrational and inexplicable blip on the curved surface of time and space

I don't understand this at all, what is it in response to?

Linux is an operating system that is as good as Windows and OS X. You won't find me saying that one is better or worse than the others (except in jest or when talking about Windows ME). But when a person seriously says that one is better than another (like you did many times), then I'm interested to understand why that is. If you don't want to provide any useful examples (like I did to support why I think Linux is as good as other operating systems), then that is your choice and I have no issue with that.

Many highly technical people choose Windows, yes, and I doubt they are irrational or stupid. However, many highly technical people choose OS X as well as Linux, so it's not a useful point.

Since I gained nothing useful from the conversation, I do not win anything.

[Asmodean]

The Asmo is almost powerless to resist joining in at this point.