News:

When one conveys certain things, particularly of such gravity, should one not then appropriately cite sources, authorities...

Main Menu

Duke of Bullshit: "The" Donald

Started by Recusant, November 11, 2015, 11:29:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dave

Quote from: Firebird on August 14, 2016, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on August 14, 2016, 02:22:15 AM

I honestly don't understand the concern about Sharia law replacing secular law in America.  As long as we have separation of church and state, how would that even be possible?  We'd not only have to become a theocracy first, but an Islamic theocracy and I certainly don't see that happening, least of all any time soon.

Most of it's just your usual hysteria. There were some fears that Canada was going to allow certain family disputes to be arbitrated via Sharia a few years back,  so that might have fed the hysteria too. See this article for example. There is also an Islamic Sharia Council Court in the UK, though it appears it doesn't have actual jurisdiction. Not clear on that from the article though. Have to admit I'd be concerned if anything like that ever did come to the US, as I would with any other type of religious court.
This may be of interest.

Sharia has no more standing in the UK than the several arbitration "courts" that anyone can apply to and that includes the Jewish Beth Din - all of them are subservient to secular legislation. Certain rules under Sharia and Beth Din might be recognised by civil courts.

However, if the law says, "No" then no it is. If I read things right any British citizen, even dual passport holders, who breaks British law in a foreign country is liable to be charged on return to the UK.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Gloucester on August 14, 2016, 04:52:35 PM

Sharia has no more standing in the UK than the several arbitration "courts" that anyone can apply to and that includes the Jewish Beth Din - all of them are subservient to secular legislation. Certain rules under Sharia and Beth Din might be recognised by civil courts.

However, if the law says, "No" then no it is.

That's been my understanding too.  A lot of religions have "courts" to deal with purely religious matters, but if a ruling in a religious court conflicts with any secular civil/criminal laws then secular laws take precedence.

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Firebird on August 14, 2016, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on August 14, 2016, 02:22:15 AM

I honestly don't understand the concern about Sharia law replacing secular law in America.  As long as we have separation of church and state, how would that even be possible?  We'd not only have to become a theocracy first, but an Islamic theocracy and I certainly don't see that happening, least of all any time soon.

Most of it's just your usual hysteria. There were some fears that Canada was going to allow certain family disputes to be arbitrated via Sharia a few years back,  so that might have fed the hysteria too. See this article for example. There is also an Islamic Sharia Council Court in the UK, though it appears it doesn't have actual jurisdiction. Not clear on that from the article though. Have to admit I'd be concerned if anything like that ever did come to the US, as I would with any other type of religious court.

It's amazing how easily people can be whipped up by nonsense.  It's like those people screaming about Obama, or next Clinton, removing the 2nd amendment without realizing that changing the Constitution is not one of those "stroke of the pen" things a President can do.

As for religious courts arbitrating over divorce, custody and inheritance disputes, I have no problem with that since any excesses would be controlled by the secular laws (as I understand it, a religious court could allow a man to divorce his dependent wife and give her no alimony, but secular law would not allow him to divorce her and sell her into slavery, even if the religious court said OK).

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Dave

Unfortunately fir humanity, but to the advantage of politicians, religionistas and certain kinds of media, the larger part of any population does not think with its head. If it thinks at all.

I love humanity but, en masse, it is stupid and easily led. Group think, mob violence etc are powerful forces and iinfectious for those who are easily influenced hy external stimuli.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Tom62

Quote from: Gloucester on August 14, 2016, 07:43:48 PM
Unfortunately fir humanity, but to the advantage of politicians, religionistas and certain kinds of media, the larger part of any population does not think with its head. If it thinks at all.

I love humanity but, en masse, it is stupid and easily led. Group think, mob violence etc are powerful forces and iinfectious for those who are easily influenced hy external stimuli.

Doesn't that imply that democracy is a bad idea or that we should give voting rights only to a selected group of (intelligent) people?
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Dave

Quote from: Tom62 on August 14, 2016, 08:48:51 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on August 14, 2016, 07:43:48 PM
Unfortunately fir humanity, but to the advantage of politicians, religionistas and certain kinds of media, the larger part of any population does not think with its head. If it thinks at all.

I love humanity but, en masse, it is stupid and easily led. Group think, mob violence etc are powerful forces and iinfectious for those who are easily influenced hy external stimuli.

Doesn't that imply that democracy is a bad idea or that we should give voting rights only to a selected group of (intelligent) people?
Certainly implies that democracy is a very inefficient and dodgy form of government - open to all kinds of interpretation and abuse, at one end a form of mob rule, at the other an open door for covert elite rule via a single party/group making most of the rules and decisions by dint of having the most bums, asses if in America, on seats.

Whatever the system some form of elite rule is inevitable.

The person who thinks the party he/she supports can do no wrong does not deserve the vote IMHO. They are not thinking about it. It was encouraging to hear how many they found to interview in America who indicated they were voting in an way based on intelligence rather than traditional party loyalty. Something similar is happening here. But it is a slow process triggered by the kind of politico-economic turmoil we don't need just now. Catastrophe theory rules, edges and cusps are dicey places - and we have an over-sufficiency right now. Just hold those bloody Australian butterflies still! Or, perhaps, the Chinese ones.

Even more inefficient are parliaments of national unity - if they become talking shops or arenas for personal showboating especially. But, democratically,  perhaps more attractive.

By "mob", in my last post, I was thinking of the unthinking herd of follow-the-leader types in specific circumstances. Easily wound up by rhetoric, easily led into action they might regret when they reflect. If they reflect. 1930s Germany was a democracy, up to a point where Hitler got rid of the opposition. But he rode in on a wave of popular support.

The only two really efficient forns io government are the impossible ones, anarchy and benign dictatorship (where the dictator only shoots the overly ambitious members of his staff and keeps the accounts straight.)
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

joeactor

Since my blog post this week has some Donald on it, here's my take on the election thus far:
http://www.joesdump.com/2016/08/15/political-pause/

Dave

Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2016, 02:21:34 PM
Since my blog post this week has some Donald on it, here's my take on the election thus far:
http://www.joesdump.com/2016/08/15/political-pause/
I don't get a vote but solidly behind your reasoning, Joe.

Since this could have global effects the rest of the eorld is sitting uo and taking notice.

we almost had five parties here, the Tory Inners and Outers, the Centrist and Socialist Labourites and the Liberals. But if we fuck it up, and there is a good chance of that, the rest of the world will mostly shrug and look elsewhere.

If America fucks it up . . . Do I take Russian or Chinese lessons?
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

joeactor

Quote from: Gloucester on August 15, 2016, 02:39:22 PM
Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2016, 02:21:34 PM
Since my blog post this week has some Donald on it, here's my take on the election thus far:
http://www.joesdump.com/2016/08/15/political-pause/
I don't get a vote but solidly behind your reasoning, Joe.

Since this could have global effects the rest of the eorld is sitting uo and taking notice.

we almost had five parties here, the Tory Inners and Outers, the Centrist and Socialist Labourites and the Liberals. But if we fuck it up, and there is a good chance of that, the rest of the world will mostly shrug and look elsewhere.

If America fucks it up . . . Do I take Russian or Chinese lessons?

I think we're headed for South America...

Dave

QuoteI think we're headed for South America...
Blimey, but what real choice do you have there. Between murders, drugs, hatred of the US, failed economies, dreadful poverty, lack of basic stuff . . .
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

joeactor

Quote from: Gloucester on August 15, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
QuoteI think we're headed for South America...
Blimey, but what real choice do you have there. Between murders, drugs, hatred of the US, failed economies, dreadful poverty, lack of basic stuff . . .

Mexico actually has some great choices, believe it or not. Seems like there's a fair number of US citizens with 2nd homes there (or moving).
Not seriously looking yet. I'm sure there are lots of other options (Japan, Spain, etc.)

Magdalena

Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2016, 04:31:33 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on August 15, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
QuoteI think we're headed for South America...
Blimey, but what real choice do you have there. Between murders, drugs, hatred of the US, failed economies, dreadful poverty, lack of basic stuff . . .

Mexico actually has some great choices, believe it or not. Seems like there's a fair number of US citizens with 2nd homes there (or moving).
Not seriously looking yet. I'm sure there are lots of other options (Japan, Spain, etc.)
:secrets1: Mexico is in North America.

North America
Central America
South America

These are your choices of South American Countries:  :-\

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

joeactor

^^^ You are correct, sir!

Good ol' US of A World Knowledge at work!
(US vs them)

Firebird

Trump is in a free fall in the polls, thankfully, but there's still almost 3 months left. Plenty of time for some massive paradigm shift that can affect the race. Considering how paranoid and irrational this country can be, if there's some kind of massive terrorist attack or two, I could easily see Trump make a comeback. Holding my breath until then.
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Tom62 on August 14, 2016, 08:48:51 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on August 14, 2016, 07:43:48 PM
Unfortunately fir humanity, but to the advantage of politicians, religionistas and certain kinds of media, the larger part of any population does not think with its head. If it thinks at all.

I love humanity but, en masse, it is stupid and easily led. Group think, mob violence etc are powerful forces and iinfectious for those who are easily influenced hy external stimuli.

Doesn't that imply that democracy is a bad idea or that we should give voting rights only to a selected group of (intelligent) people?

I think this is why we still have the electoral college.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany