News:

Unnecessarily argumentative

Main Menu

Religion in schools

Started by Stevil, July 11, 2012, 09:10:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Stevil

It seems NZ is lagging in this area. This makes me very happy.

NZ lags in teaching about religion: Scholar

Quote
David Hines, of the Secular Education Network, said some members of his group believed religion should be taken out of the curriculum altogether.

Others believed that a range of beliefs - such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and even atheism - should be taught in schools, not just Christianity, provided they were taught in a fair and objective way.

Another issue they were being told about from various communities was the lack of religions being taught that reflected a particular group of students, such as Muslim pupils.

"All they want to be taught in schools is critical thinking. Then kids can work out for themselves which religion they want," Mr Hines said.

"All of us want schools to be fair and secular, but secular meaning there's no preferance to religion.

Sweetdeath

Ok... How exactly does one teach 'atheism?'  :-\


"One day, little timmy was born ...a nd he was born without religion. Tommy grew up and believed in no god or diety. And tommy was a boy who was able to think for himself, without the influence of adult fairy tales" the end  ;D

No, seriously--- that makes no sense. How do you teach atheism?
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Stevil

Quote from: Sweetdeath on July 12, 2012, 12:39:05 AM
Ok... How exactly does one teach 'atheism?'  :-\


"One day, little timmy was born ...a nd he was born without religion. Tommy grew up and believed in no god or diety. And tommy was a boy who was able to think for himself, without the influence of adult fairy tales" the end  ;D

No, seriously--- that makes no sense. How do you teach atheism?
That Atheism is not a belief, but lack of belief,
Maybe discuss philosophically how atheism can work, that atheists can be decent people and don't need god to be good. That atheists tend to like the golden rule, that atheists tend to think critically and require physical, measurable evidence. That atheism can tend toward tolerance and has no inherent discriminations. That atheists, by and large are accepting of people regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation etc.

Non atheists don't understand what atheism is. How can atheists be one of the must distrusted groups in America? It makes no sense other than a fruit of ignorance.

Sweetdeath

Quote from: Stevil on July 12, 2012, 12:45:46 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on July 12, 2012, 12:39:05 AM
Ok... How exactly does one teach 'atheism?'  :-\


"One day, little timmy was born ...a nd he was born without religion. Tommy grew up and believed in no god or diety. And tommy was a boy who was able to think for himself, without the influence of adult fairy tales" the end  ;D

No, seriously--- that makes no sense. How do you teach atheism?
That Atheism is not a belief, but lack of belief,
Maybe discuss philosophically how atheism can work, that atheists can be decent people and don't need god to be good. That atheists tend to like the golden rule, that atheists tend to think critically and require physical, measurable evidence. That atheism can tend toward tolerance and has no inherent discriminations. That atheists, by and large are accepting of people regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation etc.

Non atheists don't understand what atheism is. How can atheists be one of the must distrusted groups in America? It makes no sense other than a fruit of ignorance.

LOL
Are we the most distrusted groups ? Had no idea XD
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

En_Route

Quote from: Stevil on July 12, 2012, 12:45:46 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on July 12, 2012, 12:39:05 AM
Ok... How exactly does one teach 'atheism?'  :-\


"One day, little timmy was born ...a nd he was born without religion. Tommy grew up and believed in no god or diety. And tommy was a boy who was able to think for himself, without the influence of adult fairy tales" the end  ;D

No, seriously--- that makes no sense. How do you teach atheism?
That Atheism is not a belief, but lack of belief,
Maybe discuss philosophically how atheism can work, that atheists can be decent people and don't need god to be good. That atheists tend to like the golden rule, that atheists tend to think critically and require physical, measurable evidence. That atheism can tend toward tolerance and has no inherent discriminations. That atheists, by and large are accepting of people regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation etc.

Non atheists don't understand what atheism is. How can atheists be one of the must distrusted groups in America? It makes no sense other than a fruit of ignorance.

I think the education system should probably focus on  conveying the  secular virtues of good citizenship, tolerance, mutual respect and co-operation which tend to make life  more harmonious, more productive and safer for us all. Schools are also sadly lacking when it comes imparting  vital life skills and how we can best maintain our physical and mental health. I think religion should just be sidelined and left to individual choice. I don't think you can teach atheism as if it were a philosophy as opposed to a philosophical position, and I don't think any of the values and virtues that Stevil enumerates are in any way necessarily associated with atheism nor are they confined to atheists. I don't think you can try to pretend atheism comes wrapped up in a package of liberal, enlightened beliefs. It does involve rejection of all religions some of which clearly encompass some rather illiberal and unenlightened beliefs,but that is not the same thing.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

Genericguy

Quote from: Stevil on July 11, 2012, 09:10:03 PM
Quote
Others believed that a range of beliefs - such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and even atheism - should be taught in schools, not just Christianity, provided they were taught in a fair and objective way.

To be fair, then, atheism is not the only religion/non-religion that believes each other religion/non-religion is untrue. It would get too complicated. Christians believe this, but Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and atheists think they're wrong. Hindus believe this, but Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, and atheists think they're wrong...


Will

Quote from: Sweetdeath on July 12, 2012, 12:39:05 AM
Ok... How exactly does one teach 'atheism?'  :-\
Teacher: "Today in class, we're going to discuss the 'religion' of Nopeism..."

Student: "Is Nopeism polytheistic?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Monotheistic?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Surely it has a set of doctrines."

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "No commandments?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Does it at least have scripture?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Well what is it, then?!"

Teacher: "Nothing. Atheism is a lack of religion. Class dismissed."

BTW, the name for the phenomenon where you say the same word over and over again until it loses meaning is called 'semantic satiation', in case anyone no longer understands the word "nope" after reading my post.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

Sweetdeath

Quote from: Will on July 12, 2012, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on July 12, 2012, 12:39:05 AM
Ok... How exactly does one teach 'atheism?'  :-\
Teacher: "Today in class, we're going to discuss the 'religion' of Nopeism..."

Student: "Is Nopeism polytheistic?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Monotheistic?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Surely it has a set of doctrines."

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "No commandments?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Does it at least have scripture?"

Teacher: "Nope."

Student: "Well what is it, then?!"

Teacher: "Nothing. Atheism is a lack of religion. Class dismissed."

BTW, the name for the phenomenon where you say the same word over and over again until it loses meaning is called 'semantic satiation', in case anyone no longer understands the word "nope" after reading my post.

Best class ever. :D
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Stevil

As a demonstration, they could play a game of monopoly.
Half the players could be theists and half atheists.
Every time the theist's pass go, they need to pay tithe of 10% of their earnings,
Every time a theist picks up a Chance or Community Chest card they need to make a prayer wish first, if they get what they wished for they yell out Praise the Lord!, if they don't but instead get something "bad" e.g. the Jail card they must gives thanks to the lord for his wisdom and the lesson they are about to learn.
If a theist becomes rich they can chose to give charity to the poor at the table or give extra in tithes or charitably let people off the rent payments, or they could just play the game and be humble and pretend to not be rich.
The theists can spend time trying to convince the atheists to also become theists and hence pay tithes and pray and avoid becoming rich or simply feel guilty when they are rich.

The atheists can snigger and jeer whenever a theist gets a good card and yells out Praise the Lord.
When an atheist picks up a Chance or Community Chest card a theist can voluntarily pray on behalf of the atheist if they feel the need to do so. An atheist can either ignore the evangalising theists or they can challenge them to show proof of their god. They can also counter evangalists and try and convince the theist to use reason and logic and thus become an atheist, thus no longer needing to pay tithes or pray or avoid getting rich.

At the end of the game the students could write and essay on what it felt like to be an atheist or a theist, on how they felt about the people with opposing worldview, on how the same game, with the same rules could accommodate different worldviews and on whether they felt that they would go to heaven or hell or neither based on how they played the game.

Sweetdeath

I wouldn't have fun playing that game, Stevil ;_;
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Amalthea

Quote from: En_Route on July 12, 2012, 01:04:58 AM
Quote from: Stevil on July 12, 2012, 12:45:46 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on July 12, 2012, 12:39:05 AM
Ok... How exactly does one teach 'atheism?'  :-\


"One day, little timmy was born ...a nd he was born without religion. Tommy grew up and believed in no god or diety. And tommy was a boy who was able to think for himself, without the influence of adult fairy tales" the end  ;D

No, seriously--- that makes no sense. How do you teach atheism?
That Atheism is not a belief, but lack of belief,
Maybe discuss philosophically how atheism can work, that atheists can be decent people and don't need god to be good. That atheists tend to like the golden rule, that atheists tend to think critically and require physical, measurable evidence. That atheism can tend toward tolerance and has no inherent discriminations. That atheists, by and large are accepting of people regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation etc.

Non atheists don't understand what atheism is. How can atheists be one of the must distrusted groups in America? It makes no sense other than a fruit of ignorance.

I think the education system should probably focus on  conveying the  secular virtues of good citizenship, tolerance, mutual respect and co-operation which tend to make life  more harmonious, more productive and safer for us all. Schools are also sadly lacking when it comes imparting  vital life skills and how we can best maintain our physical and mental health. I think religion should just be sidelined and left to individual choice. I don't think you can teach atheism as if it were a philosophy as opposed to a philosophical position, and I don't think any of the values and virtues that Stevil enumerates are in any way necessarily associated with atheism nor are they confined to atheists. I don't think you can try to pretend atheism comes wrapped up in a package of liberal, enlightened beliefs. It does involve rejection of all religions some of which clearly encompass some rather illiberal and unenlightened beliefs,but that is not the same thing.


Totally agree.
Out of all the classes taught at my high school, the ones I learned the most from were "Philosophy/Ethics In Action." We discussed respect, compassion, the reasons why humans have developed ethical and religious systems and how to use a pluralistic approach to solving moral quandaries in the real world. Most students in the class viewed it as an elective requirement to check off their list, but I can't imagine going into college without some such examination of my personal and social conscience.

Icarus

Things are not what they once were. An unfortunate turn in the halls of academia has led to the dumbing of America.. I attended the Univ. of Florida a very long time ago. It was an era when U of F did not connote University of Football.

The first two years of enrollment involved the required courses, affectionately called C courses. The C, meaning comprehensive. Associate degrees were awarded as Associate of Arts degrees and nothing else. C cources consisted of English, Math, History, The Humanities, and Logic. We were required to read some of the great books whether we liked it or not. The humanities courses involved music, literature, and philosophy. We studied the likes of the sermon on the mount, confucious, Taoism, Buddhism, Shinto, etc. Students were left to their own devices to decide their faith or lack of it. Logic courses nailed the coffin shut for some of us. We became doubters and some us were destined to become enlightened atheists. Thanks to those C courses we had learned to think for ourselves.

Colleges in the US have become trainers for specialized disciplines as differentiated from institutions of formal education.

Hey this sounds like some old mans nostalgia shit doesn't it?  I'm sticking with the story; education is better than training.