Alcoholics Anonymous and belief in God

[Loffler]

I have some friends in the AA program, and we were talking about how you need to believe in God/a Higher Power in order for the program to work.

This is not true. AA is probably going to fail whether you're Christian or not.

AA's success rate is the same as the success rate for quitting on your own.

[McQ]

I have some friends in the AA program, and we were talking about how you need to believe in God/a Higher Power in order for the program to work.

This is not true. AA is probably going to fail whether you're Christian or not.

AA's success rate is the same as the success rate for quitting on your own.

Loffler, I think she meant that AA puts in the stipulation of believing in a higher power. also, while jumping right into the forum is highly encouraged, be aware that you are responding to some really old posts to people that aren't even here any more. Just an FYI thing.  

[Loffler]

I have some friends in the AA program, and we were talking about how you need to believe in God/a Higher Power in order for the program to work.

This is not true. AA is probably going to fail whether you're Christian or not.

AA's success rate is the same as the success rate for quitting on your own.

Loffler, I think she meant that AA puts in the stipulation of believing in a higher power.

I know, and I wanted to point out that what makes that stipulation all the more infuriating is that AA doesn't even work.

also, while jumping right into the forum is highly encouraged, be aware that you are responding to some really old posts to people that aren't even here any more. Just an FYI thing.  

I'm ok with anyone responding to my posts, not just the original poster. I can't afford to be picky on forums where even the first page of threads goes back several months.

[sathyan]

Believing in god is all about  believing a power which we need in order to help succeed and to back us in failure and hence i too believe in god.
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sathyan

Alcoholism Information

[VanReal]

This makes me think of an episode of House when Dr. House was in NA/AA and in group he said how he had gotten through all of the steps up to the "giving himself over to a higher power".  He said something like, I don't believe in a higher power so I am choosing Andrea the Giant, he's big, but I'm not sure he can handle my life so I'm just not ready to give myself over to Andrea yet. Hehe.

If you google there are several programs that cater to non-believers.  It's good to know there are options.  It makes sense that many of the rehabs out there involve God as a "step" as believers turn to their higher power in order to find strength and help, they don't generally think they can do it on their own and they of course believe that their God will help them.  It's pretty sad really that they don't rely on themselves, but, like most things they expect God to take care of everything.  Must be nice to have magical interventions......

[curiosityandthecat]

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

I'm wondering if the tree in the front yard some people choose as their "god" in AA actually works for any of these after number five. I've always been skeptical of AA and other twelve-step programs. Then again, I have some friends who wouldn't be alive without AA. I also have some friends who didn't need AA and quit on their own using sheer willpower and support of family and friends. As Loffler said, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[SSY]

AA to me has always had undertones of converting people when they are down, at their lowest and incredibly vulnrable. Not only is this in itself morally reprehensible, but it engenders a thought system I think is entirely useless at solving the problem.
People should take responsibility for their lives, whether this means escaping from their dependancy on booze or imaginary friends.

[Ihateyoumike]

[strike:1wur8ery]AA[/strike:1wur8ery] Religion to me has always had undertones of converting people when they are down, at their lowest and incredibly vulnrable.

There ya go, SSY, fixed that for you.  

[curiosityandthecat]

[strike:xg6dfw78]AA[/strike:xg6dfw78] Religion to me has always had undertones of converting people when they are down, at their lowest and incredibly vulnrable.

There ya go, SSY, fixed that for you.  

[Loffler]

Believing in god is all about  believing a power which we need in order to help succeed and to back us in failure and hence i too believe in god.
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sathyan

Alcoholism Information

Believing in God does not help with recovery. At all.

[VanReal]

Believing in god is all about  believing a power which we need in order to help succeed and to back us in failure and hence i too believe in god.
----
sathyan

Alcoholism Information

Believing in God does not help with recovery. At all.

I don't think we should presume to know what helps people through recovery or any trying time in their lives.  Each person gets through things in their own way.  Let's not pretend to know what works for everyone, we need to make sure we aren't saying the same thing to the religious that we don't want them saying to us.

[curiosityandthecat]

I don't think we should presume to know what helps people through recovery or any trying time in their lives.  Each person gets through things in their own way.  Let's not pretend to know what works for everyone, we need to make sure we aren't saying the same thing to the religious that we don't want them saying to us.

I think the point that's being made is that there is nothing about belief in God, specifically, that aids in recovery. That is to say, it's the aspect of support that is important, not the label placed on it. Hence AA's rather questionable interpretation of the "God" mentioned in the 12 steps.

[VanReal]

Curio, I agree with that.  I was responding specifically to the statement that "it doesn't help. At all." Just seemed a little harsh.

[Miss Anthrope]

Believing in god is all about  believing a power which we need in order to help succeed and to back us in failure and hence i too believe in god.
----
sathyan

Alcoholism Information

Believing in God does not help with recovery. At all.

I don't think we should presume to know what helps people through recovery or any trying time in their lives.  Each person gets through things in their own way.  Let's not pretend to know what works for everyone, we need to make sure we aren't saying the same thing to the religious that we don't want them saying to us.

Agreed. that's the kind of thing that can only be said for one's self (Loffler's comment). Having any type of carrot on a stick to follow, even if it's not real, can help a person recover from something. People often have to delude themselves in some way to get through difficult times.

[Loffler]

Believing in god is all about  believing a power which we need in order to help succeed and to back us in failure and hence i too believe in god.
----
sathyan

Alcoholism Information

Believing in God does not help with recovery. At all.

I don't think we should presume to know what helps people through recovery or any trying time in their lives.  Each person gets through things in their own way.  Let's not pretend to know what works for everyone, we need to make sure we aren't saying the same thing to the religious that we don't want them saying to us.

I want them saying that to me too. I want everyone to give their opinion. I like open discourse because truth tends to defeat falsehood. The best favor you can do for falsehood is asking everyone to keep their opinions to themselves.