Alcoholics Anonymous and belief in God

[Sophie]

Hey, y'all!  

I have some friends in the AA program, and we were talking about how you need to believe in God/a Higher Power in order for the program to work.  So what do atheists and agnostics do?  As a nurse, I get asked questions about addiction, etc, and I'd like to have an understanding of how it would work for someone who doesn't believe in God.  I looked on their website, and their "big book" does have a chapter on the issue, but their position is that if you don't believe in God, it's only because you've not wanted to think about it, or you have accepted lies in order to do what you want and not be responsible to anyone for your behavior.  Yeah, whatever.  The whole thing sounded like it was written and geared towards people having an education at the low end of mediocre.

Do you know anyone in AA that is atheist?  What do you think about it?

[Whitney]

I've never met someone who was an atheist while they went through AA.  I have met (online) one guy who successfully completed AA then later became an atheist and still thinks AA is a good program.

I think AA is a bad idea for theists or atheists because it requires that the person believe they are unable to find the strength to overcome the addiction within themselves and therefore must look towards a "higher power" for help.  The only real way to overcome any addiction is to develop inner strength.

I have heard of there being secular versions of AA-like groups that work around finding personal strength and don't involve religious notions....there just probably aren't as many as those groups as there really should be.

[Smarmy Of One]

My brother is in AA. He was an atheist before he started the program and is an atheist again. During the crucial first year though, he believed in a 'higher power' so the program could work.

It has to do with letting go of all the blame that alcoholics carry that causes them to go into a shame spiral and continue to drink. Whatever works, I guess.

My personal feelings on this, because I had to deal with my brother while he was drinking, is that if he had actually accepted any responsibility for anything, he probably wouldn't have been a drinker.

As far as I am concerned, alcoholism is NOT the problem. It is a symptom. Most alcoholics never delve into what actually turned them to drink in the first place.

[MommaSquid]

if he had actually accepted any responsibility for anything, he probably wouldn't have been a drinker.

As far as I am concerned, alcoholism is NOT the problem. It is a symptom. Most alcoholics never delve into what actually turned them to drink in the first place.

Amen to that.  Life is all about personal choices and responsibility.

SOS International (Save Our Selves) is a secular version of AA.  I don't know if they are more successful than regular AA, which has an approximate success rate of 5% (according to what I've read in the past).

My father is an alcoholic who blames this on the fact that his uncle started giving him beer at age 11.  He doesn't see his drinking as a problem, nor does he acknowledge the fact that it affects the rest of the family.

[Whitney]

My father is an alcoholic who blames this on the fact that his uncle started giving him beer at age 11.  He doesn't see his drinking as a problem, nor does he acknowledge the fact that it affects the rest of the family.

That's really sad. Have you tried intervention?  If it's really bad, I suggest taking pictures or video of him after he has been drinking then showing it to him when he is sober.  My dad's dad was an alcoholic and not only drank himself to death but also made it so he was never around; I only met him once or twice.

I was given sips of beer since I was old enough to walk, my sister and I were allowed to drink wine with nice dinners since we were in grade school, and I was allowed to drink alcohol that my parents provided when I was in high school....I think it actually helpled me not to make some of the same mistakes many young people make with drinking since the forbidden appeal was never there.  So, I know that having alchohol at a young age doesn't mean you'll become an alcoholic;  I guess the young drinking thing is just another way to place blame elsewehre anyway.

Anyway, sorry about your dad.

[Kona]

My brother is in AA. He was an atheist before he started the program and is an atheist again. During the crucial first year though, he believed in a 'higher power' so the program could work.

It has to do with letting go of all the blame that alcoholics carry that causes them to go into a shame spiral and continue to drink. Whatever works, I guess.

Wow, that is quite a transition!  Most of the time it is from believer--->non-believer---->believer.  I have never heard of the reciprocal occurring, though I suppose it could.   I would think that a better  alternative would be personal counseling combined with group support for the atheist.  I think for most people, support groups are key since humans are bent on the powerful group think dynamic straight out of the womb, but the individuals can use the group as a source of empowerment.  If one is already an atheist, then trying to subvert that with some sort of deistic therapy model seems counterintuitive.  I think atheists are on the average more logical and intelligent than most theists, so the therapeutic modality should use logic over fantasy for better effect.  What happens once the habit is kicked and the person goes back to their original world view (to atheism from deism)?  Does this put the person at risk of relapse?  I don't know...I'm just offering a different point of view.

[MommaSquid]

That's really sad. Have you tried intervention? If it's really bad, I suggest taking pictures or video of him after he has been drinking then showing it to him when he is sober. My dad's dad was an alcoholic and not only drank himself to death but also made it so he was never around; I only met him once or twice.

My dad is also bi-polar, so any time we try to discuss his alcoholism he blames his problems on the meds he takes for his "other" issue.  Plus, mom covers for him most of the time...unless she's really pissed off with his behavior.  But eventually she forgives him and things go back to happy shiny.  I'm sure I'll get a call some day telling me he's in prison or the hospital.

I was given sips of beer since I was old enough to walk...So, I know that having alchohol at a young age doesn't mean you'll become an alcoholic;

I was given beer and wine as a very small child, too, so I agree that isn't the root cause of alcoholism.  I have a drink now and then, but I have no interest in getting really drunk.  After watching dad all those years, it just doesn't have much of an appeal.

[SteveS]

Surely, the appeal of alcohol involves moderation.  Being really drunk is unpleasant, and being drunk all the time sounds horrible.

[MommaSquid]

Surely, the appeal of alcohol involves moderation.  Being really drunk is unpleasant, and being drunk all the time sounds horrible.

That's true for me.  I've always prefered a mild buzz to outright intoxication.  And I enjoy the taste of a good 7&7 far too much to down them in rapid succession.

[Bella]

I've thought about this. AA would send me running out of the room screaming and into a bottle of vodka, haha. I've heard people say that it's about finding a "higher power" and not necessarily God. Well, even if that were true, I'm sure at least 2/3 of the people in that room have God as their higher power and you'd have to listen to that junk all of the time. I think I would just go to rehab. Do the whole detox thing and find some hobbies to replace whatever the substance was.

[MommaSquid]

I think I would just go to rehab. Do the whole detox thing and find some hobbies to replace whatever the substance was.

Bella, the vast majority of rehab centers require their patients to join a 12-step program during their rehab stay.  It's pretty hard to separate the two.  

Patients also get cognitive and behavioral therapy, but the 12-step crap is almost always mandatory.



Have any of you watched Celebrity Rehab?  It's sickening and compelling at the same time.   :?

[catwixen]

Hi there, I am an atheist who has used AA. I liked everything about it except for the higher power stuff. I guess you could say I cherry picked what worked for me. Ultimately I have not used AA in my journey lately, but I know of people it has helped both theistis and non theist. There is good in AA, mainly the group mentality of people being there for people. I think that can work wonders for anyone, whether they believe in God or not.

[SteveS]

I enjoy the taste of a good 7&7 far too much to down them in rapid succession.

So it is with me and beer.  I enjoy it too much to just quaff pint after pint until I'm slobbering drunk.  I have been known to over indulge, but not frequently, and not too bad.  I figure everyone has to get a few good drunks in their life to experience it and to learn, but after those are out of your system an occasional decent buzz seems to suffice.

I do feel badly for the addicts, though --- it's got to be rough on you, and a hard habit to kick.

I don't have any experience at all, even through people I know, of AA --- but catwixen's comments above seem sound to me.

[SCRYER]

I've been sober in AA for 13 years.  Throughout that time I've looked at Christianity, new age spirituality, paganism and witchcraft, Buddhism, etc.  I found that atheism is far more sensible for reasons probably obvious to members on this site.  

Bill Wilson stated in his writings that the AA member could choose his/her own conception of god. I redefine god to mean any group of people who gather together to stay sober.  Service work and being a member of a community gives a deeper meaning to my life.  I'm sober and relatively happy with the direction of my life.  

If there are other AA members out there who are atheists please say hi.  

Scryer

[MommaSquid]

Congratulations, SCRYER, and best wishes.  I'm glad you found a way to make AA work for you...sadly, many people don't.