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Started by Huxley, July 26, 2006, 01:09:28 AM

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Whitney

Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"Was there another version of "The Great Flood" :hmm:

Yes, but they don't all date back to the same time period:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

G.ENIGMA

Quote from: "laetusatheos"
Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"Was there another version of "The Great Flood" :)

Obviously this one struck a cord

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html#German

"A louse and a flea were brewing beer :crazy:  makes me realise that my own theories are not so far fetched.
To those who are overly cautious, everything seems impossible.

VanReal

The Epic of Gilgamesh is the first know telling of the great flood, it was found on 12 tablets and the bible version so closely mimics it that I think of it as plagerism:)  Christians will usualy argue that the "first" is not always the truth, and that the fact that there are other stories of the flood proves that it really happened.  Hmmm.  Makes me wonder how their God was so inept that all of these survivors were left to tell the tale.
In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. (Kathy Norris)
They say I have ADHD but I think they are full of...oh, look a kitty!! (unknown)

G.ENIGMA

Quote from: "VanReal"The Epic of Gilgamesh is the first know telling of the great flood, it was found on 12 tablets and the bible version so closely mimics it that I think of it as plagerism:)  Christians will usualy argue that the "first" is not always the truth, and that the fact that there are other stories of the flood proves that it really happened.  Hmmm.  Makes me wonder how their God was so inept that all of these survivors were left to tell the tale.


I can understand what they mean, this segment and verse from tablet no:10 looks nothing like the story about Noahs Ark, nothing at all :shock:  :hmm:
To those who are overly cautious, everything seems impossible.

VanReal

^ You are right, that is nothing like Noah.  Hey why did they stop sacraficing animals?
In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. (Kathy Norris)
They say I have ADHD but I think they are full of...oh, look a kitty!! (unknown)

Kyuuketsuki

Quote from: "Huxley"I read somewhere (maybe McQ can confirm it) that if it had rained for 40 days and 40 nights the subsequent baric air pressure would have been totally incompatible with any airbreathing life.

It's much worse than that ... the amount of water required to cover the mountains to more than 5 cubits is not only many times more water than Earth has but would require a rainfall rate by comparison to which the most violent thunderstorm ever recorded would seem like a gentle April shower by comparison. Then just consider the boat itself ... no wooden ship (even braced with steel) of that length has even been able to set sail (by which I mean as intended) ... the biggest (dwarfed by the the mythical ark) was observed to "snake" (ripple I presume?) in calm water.

Seems to me that these idiot's who believe it could have happened should build a full size replica of the ship, without bracing or any modern technology in use (fine in manufacture), at least to show the bloody thing was possible. Then we can get on to dealing with how it would survive such a storm ... best answer I've had yet was, "god can do anything and he protected it", I mean why not ditch logic and reason altogether?

Kyu
.
James C. Rocks: UK Tech Portal & Science, Just Science

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G.ENIGMA

Right then lets "get down to brass tacks" and "sort out some of the nitty gritty"  ( Sorry for the colloquialism, I couldn't help myself :brick: )

We have to move every kind of creature ( never mind the plant life ) to safety until the water recedes and the earth becomes habitable once again.

Now we know that The Ark/Ship written about in the bible "no matter how grand the design" seems, could in no way have held all the earths (even a much smaller earth) creatures 2X2 so lets discount that (unless of course "someone" can come up with a convincing answer as to how it could have? :unsure: )

The first thing we are going to need is a new ship design, something much much bigger than normal ships

Something like this maybe:

[attachment=0:2wnx3q89]Rays%20Ship.jpg[/attachment:2wnx3q89]
To those who are overly cautious, everything seems impossible.

Kyuuketsuki

Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"The earth is going to flood and it is then going to be uninhabitable for a long time afterwards (salt water does a lot of damge you know

To be fair to the wingnuts there is no specification that it has to be salt water (except of course by process of mixing with existing sea water so a 1 in 4 dilution by "rain").

Kyu
James C. Rocks: UK Tech Portal & Science, Just Science

[size=150]Not Long For This Forum [/size]

Twiddler

I'll be honest and admit that I've never really looked into the specifics of the argument against Noah's Ark because I feel like plain ol' common sense does more than a good enough job eliminating any chance of a story like this being true.  I mean, a giant ark that has two of each species and they are housed for a long time while the entire earth is flood because of god being pissed off at sinners?  That makes a ton of sense...   :brick:

G.ENIGMA

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"
Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"The earth is going to flood and it is then going to be uninhabitable for a long time afterwards (salt water does a lot of damge you know

To be fair to the wingnuts there is no specification that it has to be salt water (except of course by process of mixing with existing sea water so a 1 in 4 dilution by "rain").

Kyu

That's the problem though ... Though the story has an attempt at being specific by giving somewhat disingenuous Ark dimensions and specifications, the problem is in the size and structure ... For a story that is one of the mainstays of the Bible "lets face it" it is pretty badly concieved.

As for the salt .... I may be wrong here :pop:
To those who are overly cautious, everything seems impossible.

liveyoungdiefast

I joke with friends that Noah was the world's first atheist because you can imagine the look he gave God when gathering up cobras and scorpions and lions.

G.ENIGMA

Quote from: "liveyoungdiefast"I joke with friends that Noah was the world's first atheist because you can imagine the look he gave God when gathering up cobras and scorpions and lions.


Not to mention those troubling little bunnies



 :crazy:
To those who are overly cautious, everything seems impossible.

Enoch Root

Personally I wouldn't argue with Christians against the Flood story based on scientific or physical impossibilities.  Clearly, they're claiming it was a supernatural event.  God ordered the building of the ark, God caused the rain, God shut the door on the ark.  The logical continuation of that belief is that God allowed all the animals to fit on it, God provided them with food, God saw the boat safely through the ordeal.  If he's an omnipotent God he can do that.

I would ask them about the implications of such an event.  An all-knowing, all-powerful God suddenly realizes that he screwed up royally with the human race and decides to start over.  He could have just snapped his fingers and every guilty adult human would have dropped dead.  He could have magically transported all the rotting corpses to Antarctica or the moon or Australia or somewhere out of the way.  Presto, Noah and his family and a whole bunch of innocent kids would have wide empty world to live in.  Instead, no, he decides to nuke-by-water the whole thing.  Men, women, children, horses, puppies, kittens, all of it.  And yet he singularly failed to address ANY of the problems with basic human nature, so surprise! once the Earth is repopulated it goes right back to the same old sin and rebellion.

Did God think that one through at all?

Mind you, this is the same God who, after the fall of Adam and Eve, decided to punish all snakes for the devil's actions.  Sucks to be a snake.  "Why the hell do I have to crawl on my belly from now on?!  I didn't do anything!"

G.ENIGMA

Quote from: "Enoch Root"Instead, no, he decides to nuke-by-water the whole thing.  Men, women, children, horses, puppies, kittens, all of it.  And yet he singularly failed to address ANY of the problems with basic human nature, so surprise! once the Earth is repopulated it goes right back to the same old sin and rebellion.

Did God think that one through at all?

Sounds almost like human stupidity, which I suppose if the christians are right just proves to them that we were made in his own image :crazy:
To those who are overly cautious, everything seems impossible.

maestroanth

Quote from: "Enoch Root"Personally I wouldn't argue with Christians against the Flood story based on scientific or physical impossibilities.  Clearly, they're claiming it was a supernatural event.  God ordered the building of the ark, God caused the rain, God shut the door on the ark.  The logical continuation of that belief is that God allowed all the animals to fit on it, God provided them with food, God saw the boat safely through the ordeal.  If he's an omnipotent God he can do that.

I would ask them about the implications of such an event.  An all-knowing, all-powerful God suddenly realizes that he screwed up royally with the human race and decides to start over.  He could have just snapped his fingers and every guilty adult human would have dropped dead.  He could have magically transported all the rotting corpses to Antarctica or the moon or Australia or somewhere out of the way.  Presto, Noah and his family and a whole bunch of innocent kids would have wide empty world to live in.  Instead, no, he decides to nuke-by-water the whole thing.  Men, women, children, horses, puppies, kittens, all of it.  And yet he singularly failed to address ANY of the problems with basic human nature, so surprise! once the Earth is repopulated it goes right back to the same old sin and rebellion.

Did God think that one through at all?

Mind you, this is the same God who, after the fall of Adam and Eve, decided to punish all snakes for the devil's actions.  Sucks to be a snake.  "Why the hell do I have to crawl on my belly from now on?!  I didn't do anything!"

As a kid when I believed in God, it's because of this I got the impression God was saying he wasn't omnipotent.  Just a supernatural power and we're just his toy ants.

I honestly don't think you need math to prove that story is ridiculous.  At best the bible can be taken in a methaphoric sense.