Abortion Opinions

[Sandra Craft]

Stevil, why do you consider a fetus a human? That makes no sense to me.

You don't consider it to be a human being????

I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.
Here is an interesting vid

I consider a fetus human too, and an embryo as well for that matter.  They're humans in the very earliest stages of life, but I don't see how they can honestly be considered anything else.  What other kind of genetic material could you call that?

[Asmodean]

I consider a fetus human too, and an embryo as well for that matter.  They're humans in the very earliest stages of life, but I don't see how they can honestly be considered anything else.  What other kind of genetic material could you call that?

I consider them pre-human. There is a difference.

[Ali]

Stevil, why do you consider a fetus a human? That makes no sense to me.

You don't consider it to be a human being????

I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.
Here is an interesting vid

I consider a fetus human too, and an embryo as well for that matter.  They're humans in the very earliest stages of life, but I don't see how they can honestly be considered anything else.  What other kind of genetic material could you call that?

I agree with this.  I'm pro-choice, but I still consider fetuses to be human.  Sure, they are a less developed human, but so what?  A newborn is less developed than a three year old, but the newborn is still a human.  A three year old is less developed than a ten year old, but the three year old is still a human.  I don't get how being less developed makes a fetus not a human.  The reason that I'm still pro-choice in the face of the idea that fetuses are humans is that I don't think any human should be required to use their bodies and organs to keep another human being alive.  Like, if you need a kidney to live and I want to give you one, cool.  If not, it's my body and I shouldn't have to, even if that means you die. 

[Amicale]

Just chiming into this thread quickly (at least, I hope it'll be quick, ha).

When I was younger, I was prolife because I mostly got caught up in the emotional rhetoric behind that stance - ie, everyone 'deserves' to live, if the fetus is human then you're taking away a human's life, and of course the standard '100% of pro-choicers were conveniently never aborted before birth' and the 'if you could ask the baby whether it wanted to be born, do you think it would say no?' etc etc.

Interestingly enough, I became prochoice not when I became an atheist, but when I learned more about my own family history and when I was going to become a mom. Without getting into personal details, I've met and spoken with several women who needed to get an abortion even when it was a very difficult choice to make, and when they didn't want to give up the pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancies, cases where the mother-to-be was several months along and found out the baby had a deadly or horribly painful condition and would die anyhow, cases where mothers had their lives put at severe risk if they didn't end a pregnancy - most of these women wanted the babies. Most of them would gladly have gone through the pregnancy had it been healthy and normal. And that's prettymuch when I realized that all women need safe, legal access to abortion services.

When it comes to second trimester and particularly the rare third trimester abortions women get from time to time, it seems that often they wanted the pregnancy. It isn't as though you carry a baby for several months, and then decide suddenly to abort. It seems that in most of these cases, it's a severe health issue that comes into play... and women who have to do the necessary thing and get an abortion are going into abortion clinics, only to be met with angry, yelling prolife protesters, and THAT pisses me the hell off. For that matter, no abortion's easy or a convenient decision, whether you want the baby or not. The woman's going through probably one of the worst days in her life. The last thing she needs is a placard shoved in her face.

Well, so much for this being quick...

[Stevil]

I can understand the pro-lifers being compelled to do what they can to try and save a life.
I don't if it ever works or simply makes the mother feel uncomfortable or terrible. It is unnecessary extra stress on an already stressed mother.

If you believe in morality and believe that morality should be imposed via law, then these pro-lifers are acting consistent with that.
But I doubt government will ever make abortion against the law, they can't afford to pay the support required for all the down-syndromeb and other issue people for a life-time. They also don't want people going to unregulated underground clinics.

I struggle with the anti-euthanasia movement. The person in pain has stated that they want the suffering to end. This is much more clear cut than abortion.

[Sweetdeath]

I can understand the pro-lifers being compelled to do what they can to try and save a life.
I don't if it ever works or simply makes the mother feel uncomfortable or terrible. It is unnecessary extra stress on an already stressed mother.

If you believe in morality and believe that morality should be imposed via law, then these pro-lifers are acting consistent with that.
But I doubt government will ever make abortion against the law, they can't afford to pay the support required for all the down-syndromeb and other issue people for a life-time. They also don't want people going to unregulated underground clinics.

I struggle with the anti-euthanasia movement. The person in pain has stated that they want the suffering to end. This is much more clear cut than abortion.

The thing that pisses me off about pro life people (especially the loud , in your face ones) are-- they don't understand what kind of sad, horrible , or simply painful reason the mother has to go through this.

They aren't having the abortion, why don't they shut their fucking mouths?

It really bothers me... to call and poor woman a murderer or worse, when this can't be easy as is for her.

[Stevil]

The thing that pisses me off about pro life people (especially the loud , in your face ones) are-- they don't understand what kind of sad, horrible , or simply painful reason the mother has to go through this.

They aren't having the abortion, why don't they shut their fucking mouths?

It really bothers me... to call and poor woman a murderer or worse, when this can't be easy as is for her.

I presume they don't care about hurting the woman's feelings, they may see this as a lesser "evil" than the "murder" that they are desperately trying to prevent.

[Sandra Craft]

The reason that I'm still pro-choice in the face of the idea that fetuses are humans is that I don't think any human should be required to use their bodies and organs to keep another human being alive.  Like, if you need a kidney to live and I want to give you one, cool.  If not, it's my body and I shouldn't have to, even if that means you die. 

I'm also pro-choice despite considering the unborn human beings.  For me, it's an issue of who has seniority in the difficult situation of two people temporarily sharing one body.  They both have rights but I think the mother's must take precedence 1) because she got here first and already has a full life underway, rather than one waiting to happen and 2) I think only the mother is truly in a position to judge what's best in her circumstances, even if "the best" is no more than the less horrible choice. 

Personally, I would like to see it made easier to be a mother in difficult circumstances so that women whose reasons to abort are economic or personal, rather than medical, have a real option to carry the child to term if they wish, and I don't care how much it raises my taxes.  It's important enough to pay for.   

[Ali]

Personally, I would like to see it made easier to be a mother in difficult circumstances so that women whose reasons to abort are economic or personal, rather than medical, have a real option to carry the child to term if they wish, and I don't care how much it raises my taxes.  It's important enough to pay for.   

Yes, I completely agree with this.  I support programs that offer support to women and children in the hopes that less women will feel the need to get abortions for financial reasons. 

[En_Route]

Personally, I would like to see it made easier to be a mother in difficult circumstances so that women whose reasons to abort are economic or personal, rather than medical, have a real option to carry the child to term if they wish, and I don't care how much it raises my taxes.  It's important enough to pay for.  

Yes, I completely agree with this.  I support programs that offer support to women and children in the hopes that less women will feel the need to get abortions for financial reasons.  

I must demur. The effect of this, if not the intent, is to write blank cheques for women who are on low incomes to have as many children they want.

[Tank]

Personally, I would like to see it made easier to be a mother in difficult circumstances so that women whose reasons to abort are economic or personal, rather than medical, have a real option to carry the child to term if they wish, and I don't care how much it raises my taxes.  It's important enough to pay for.  

Yes, I completely agree with this.  I support programs that offer support to women and children in the hopes that less women will feel the need to get abortions for financial reasons.  

I must demur. The effect of this, if not the intent, is to write blank cheques for women who are on low incomes to have as many children they want.

Not necessarily. Full support for first child, 50% for second and none after that.

[En_Route]

Personally, I would like to see it made easier to be a mother in difficult circumstances so that women whose reasons to abort are economic or personal, rather than medical, have a real option to carry the child to term if they wish, and I don't care how much it raises my taxes.  It's important enough to pay for.  

Yes, I completely agree with this.  I support programs that offer support to women and children in the hopes that less women will feel the need to get abortions for financial reasons.  

I must demur. The effect of this, if not the intent, is to write blank cheques for women who are on low incomes to have as many children they want.

Not necessarily. Full support for first child, 50% for second and none after that.

Programmes of this nature can indeed be calibrated .However, they still imply that taxpayers like ourselves who have to bear the considerable expense of raising and educating our own offspring (and in today's straitened climate the financial haemorrhage doesn't usually stop at 21) will be expected to subsidise other people's children  -in many cases purely on the basis that they were careless in their contraceptive habits. Even in your scheme, it means that it will pay a female with limited employment prospects to have a baby and get the state to support her and  her child. Not exactly the best cure for the dependency culture. It's unfortunate if someone ends up having to have an abortion, but I really feel no urge to pick up the tab.

[Ali]

Well, let me put it this way.  I support Universal Healthcare, which I think is valuable no matter how many children you have.  I support providing quality educations in our public schools, which should be available to all children in the US.   I support providing food and housing vouchers to anyone who cannot afford to pay for their own food and/or housing, whether they have children or not.  In the case of food/housing vouchers, I would like to see some reform, such as those who need them might be enrolled in programs to learn a trade or something like that.  But regardless, I do not approve of letting anyone starve to death or die of exposure because they can't afford food or housing, regardless of how many children they have.  I also support providing vouchers to help pay for childcare if need be so that parents can work.  Child care is insanely expensive; I pay almost a thousand dollars a month for my one child to be in full time daycare, so I can certainly understand if someone finds themself in a position where it seems that they can't afford to work.  I support these programs no matter how many kids a person has, but I am certainly hopeful that if we had the right support structure like this in place, less women would feel like they could not afford to not have an abortion.

[En_Route]

I ' d agree that  once a child has been born it should have guaranteed access to a minimum standard of living, ,healthcare,education etc irrespective of the means of their parents. The effect of all that may incidentally be to deter some women from having abortions. The rationale is that a I prefer to live in a compassionate society that cares for all its members, not to minimise the frequency of abortions as if that is the overarching evil that we must fend off , whatever it takes. What I was baulking at was the idea that additional funds should be channelled to mothers simply to prevent them from having abortions. This really seems to echo the pro- life stance that abortion is something  overwhelmingly terrible, and therefore to be averted by all means at our disposal.

[Ali]

I don't think we should, like, pay women to keep pregnancies.  But yes, I do believe that we need a compassionate society that provides for all of it's members, and I do hope that the creation of such would make less women feel like they have to get an abortion.  I'm not saying that abortion needs to be ended at all costs, but I do think that abortion is a sad situation, and I do hope that no women feels like she has no other choice than to get one.  If a woman wants to get one for personal reasons (not ready for a child, or whatever) then I support her right to do that, but I do hate the idea of a woman who would otherwise want to keep her baby but feels that, for financial reasons, it's not an option.  I hate the idea of anyone being forced into that position.