I'll Say This Much About Jesus...

[En_Route]

Well of course as no bodies are harmed in the communion process, as an issue of fact, it is not cannibalism of any variety, ritualised or otherwise.

If you refuse to believe that the Catholics actually profess to believe that they are in actual fact eating the body of Jesus, for whatever reason, I don't care. They're the ones making the absurd claim, not I. If taking them at their word makes me "ignorant, hysterical and bigoted," then so be it. I stand by my characterization (not caricature) as completely accurate.

Well if you seriously want to maintain that Catholics believe that they are  literally engaged in a form of cannibalism, that is your privilege. Just don't expect anybody to take you seriously.

[Recusant]

As somebody who spent many years being schooled by Catholics in their dogma, it doesn't matter to me whether you or anybody else takes me seriously when I write about the crap that they teach: I know what I was taught, and it can be verified by reading the article I linked to earlier.

[MadBomr101]

Well if you seriously want to maintain that Catholics believe that they are  literally engaged in a form of cannibalism, that is your privilege. Just don't expect anybody to take you seriously.

It isn't presented as or perceived as cannibalism because you're just eating bread and drinking wine.  The claim that it becomes the body and blood is a spiritual con job to make the whole ritual seem meaningful and miraculous.  Another church may present it as a symbolic uniting of man and god.  Point being, if you're raised with this shit and it's presented as a pure and divine means of bringing you closer to god, no one will see it as anything but beautiful no matter how it's offered.

Arguing whether one church claims it's a symbolic ritual or another claims it literally becomes the flesh and blood of Christ is like arguing which side of a dead fish stinks worse. It's ALL ridiculous.

[En_Route]

As somebody who spent many years being schooled by Catholics in their dogma, it doesn't matter to me whether you or anybody else takes me seriously when I write about the crap that they teach: I know what I was taught, and it can be verified by reading the article I linked to earlier.

Then you'd know that the body in question is resurrected and will live forever and is along with the soul and divinity of Jesus present in every communion host ie this is a body that rose from the dead, is immortal but the essence of which ihas been incorporated in its entirety into billions of such hosts. So to equate this incomprehensible concept with anything in the real world really makes no sense. Some cranks do peddle this line about cannibalism, but they are an embarrassment to themselves and the cause of atheism.

[En_Route]

Well if you seriously want to maintain that Catholics believe that they are  literally engaged in a form of cannibalism, that is your privilege. Just don't expect anybody to take you seriously.

It isn't presented as or perceived as cannibalism because you're just eating bread and drinking wine.  The claim that it becomes the body and blood is a spiritual con job to make the whole ritual seem meaningful and miraculous.  Another church may present it as a symbolic uniting of man and god.  Point being, if you're raised with this shit and it's presented as a pure and divine means of bringing you closer to god, no one will see it as anything but beautiful no matter how it's offered.

Arguing whether one church claims it's a symbolic ritual or another claims it literally becomes the flesh and blood of Christ is like arguing which side of a dead fish stinks worse. It's ALL ridiculous.

I completely agree. But I think if we are going to put forward atheistic positions, it would help if they were not equally ridiculous.

[xSilverPhinx]

Mock the Jesus cracker and see what happens. If they didn't see that as more than just a biscuit, then there really would be no reason to get all worked up over it.

Sorry, but some things really are ridiculous, whether they have many years of tradition and followers or not. Always walking that fine line between making fun of people and making fun of their cherished beliefs (how separable are they?) but some things just have to be said.

[En_Route]

Mock the Jesus cracker and see what happens. If they didn't see that as more than just a biscuit, then there really would be no reason to get all worked up over it.

Sorry, but some things really are ridiculous, whether they have many years of tradition and followers or not. Always walking that fine line between making fun of people and making fun of their cherished beliefs (how separable are they?) but some things just have to be said.

People do hold many irrational beliefs which are dear to them. That's what it is to be human. Even some atheists regard certain propositions as self- evident or intuitively right , which on analysis turn out to be acts of faith. Christians on the whole have a deplorable record in extending tolerance and empathy to atheists; personally, I don't feel compelled to reciprocate.

[Stevil]

I'm just trying to understand the mind of a believer.

They tell me their bread and wine becomes Jesus' body and blood when they eat it.

I say Ewwww Yuck!

They say it is not cannibalism.

I ask why not?
They come up with words like "transubstantiation"

I find out that means it is body and blood, but it looks like bread and wine.

If I have a vegetarian sausage that looks like a pork sausage, am I eating pork or vegetables? The answer is vegetables.
So it is irrelevant what it looks like.
Thus they believe they are eating body and blood.

So, again why is this not cannibalism?
Because it is everlasting body and blood, because it is resurrected body and blood?

Hmmm, whatever qualifiers you put on it, it is still believed to be body and blood.
Sounds disgusting to me, eating the flesh of your beloved savior.
Is this not gross?

Nah, its a beautiful experience they say.

Hmmm, am I supposed to coexist with these people?

[Recusant]

I have no trouble coexisting with Catholics. In fact I prefer them generally to the evangelicals and most Baptists, for instance. As well, I don't mind having it implied that I'm an embarrassing crank who is ignorant, hysterical and bigoted for calling their beliefs as I see them.

[En_Route]

I'm just trying to understand the mind of a believer.

They tell me their bread and wine becomes Jesus' body and blood when they eat it.

I say Ewwww Yuck!

They say it is not cannibalism.

I ask why not?
They come up with words like "transubstantiation"

I find out that means it is body and blood, but it looks like bread and wine.

If I have a vegetarian sausage that looks like a pork sausage, am I eating pork or vegetables? The answer is vegetables.
So it is irrelevant what it looks like.
Thus they believe they are eating body and blood.

So, again why is this not cannibalism?
Because it is everlasting body and blood, because it is resurrected body and blood?

Hmmm, whatever qualifiers you put on it, it is still believed to be body and blood.
Sounds disgusting to me, eating the flesh of your beloved savior.
Is this not gross?

Nah, its a beautiful experience they say.

Hmmm, am I supposed to coexist with these people?

Not body and blood as we know it, but supernatural body and blood, and moreover supernatural body and blood which has all the physical characteristics of bread. So cannibalism, real or putative, it ain't. So it's  not gross but it is über- bizarre, or less diplomatically, nuts. But because it is accepted by vast numbers of  ordinary , functioniing people we know If we didn't know already  that sane people can believe insane things.

[En_Route]

I have no trouble coexisting with Catholics. In fact I prefer them generally to the evangelicals and most Baptists, for instance. As well, I don't mind having it implied that I'm an embarrassing crank who is ignorant, hysterical and bigoted for calling their beliefs as I see them.

I know you are made of hardy stuff.

[MadBomr101]

I'm just trying to understand the mind of a believer.

They tell me their bread and wine becomes Jesus' body and blood when they eat it.

I say Ewwww Yuck!

They say it is not cannibalism.

I ask why not?
They come up with words like "transubstantiation"

I find out that means it is body and blood, but it looks like bread and wine.

If I have a vegetarian sausage that looks like a pork sausage, am I eating pork or vegetables? The answer is vegetables.
So it is irrelevant what it looks like.
Thus they believe they are eating body and blood.

So, again why is this not cannibalism?
Because it is everlasting body and blood, because it is resurrected body and blood?

Hmmm, whatever qualifiers you put on it, it is still believed to be body and blood.
Sounds disgusting to me, eating the flesh of your beloved savior.
Is this not gross?

Nah, its a beautiful experience they say.

Hmmm, am I supposed to coexist with these people?

As a recovered Catholic I can only repeat what I said earlier; if you're raised with this shit and it's presented to you as a spiritual uniting with christ, you eat the little cookie, you drink the cheap wine and you feel all one with god.  It's actually gross and retarded but it's made beautiful by the years of brainwashing that packages it as thing of beauty.

[En_Route]

I'm just trying to understand the mind of a believer.

They tell me their bread and wine becomes Jesus' body and blood when they eat it.

I say Ewwww Yuck!

They say it is not cannibalism.

I ask why not?
They come up with words like "transubstantiation"

I find out that means it is body and blood, but it looks like bread and wine.

If I have a vegetarian sausage that looks like a pork sausage, am I eating pork or vegetables? The answer is vegetables.
So it is irrelevant what it looks like.
Thus they believe they are eating body and blood.

So, again why is this not cannibalism?
Because it is everlasting body and blood, because it is resurrected body and blood?

Hmmm, whatever qualifiers you put on it, it is still believed to be body and blood.
Sounds disgusting to me, eating the flesh of your beloved savior.
Is this not gross?

Nah, its a beautiful experience they say.

Hmmm, am I supposed to coexist with these people?

As a recovered Catholic I can only repeat what I said earlier; if you're raised with this shit and it's presented to you as a spiritual uniting with christ, you eat the little cookie, you drink the cheap wine and you feel all one with god.  It's actually gross and retarded but it's made beautiful by the years of brainwashing that packages it as thing of beauty.

It is rather primitive but the theology around it has a poetic quality to it, albeit with no correspondence to any form of known human logic.

[xSilverPhinx]

Mock the Jesus cracker and see what happens. If they didn't see that as more than just a biscuit, then there really would be no reason to get all worked up over it.

Sorry, but some things really are ridiculous, whether they have many years of tradition and followers or not. Always walking that fine line between making fun of people and making fun of their cherished beliefs (how separable are they?) but some things just have to be said.

People do hold many irrational beliefs which are dear to them. That's what it is to be human. Even some atheists regard certain propositions as self- evident or intuitively right , which on analysis turn out to be acts of faith. Christians on the whole have a deplorable record in extending tolerance and empathy to atheists; personally, I don't feel compelled to reciprocate.

I'm wholly aware that even atheists hold cherished beliefs and ideologies that they will defend from any challenge. I'm from a place riddled with politicians, some of which are also atheists.
But if one of those tried to pass a law which dictated that people should live their lives or restrict your freedom as they see fit based on tradition of their beliefs, no matter how cherished, you'd bet I'd wouldn't extend any feelings of empathy towards them. Sometimes those things outweigh the disgust I feel of some people's actions and desire to not be associated with them in any way.

Hmmm, whatever qualifiers you put on it, it is still believed to be body and blood.
Sounds disgusting to me, eating the flesh of your beloved savior.
Is this not gross?

Nah, its a beautiful experience they say.

Hmmm, am I supposed to coexist with these people?

I laughed at this

Based on what the native Indians did here, by literally eating their enemies and turning it into a somewhat spiritual/traditional experience, I'd say that people's mind can work in strange ways.

basically if one of them wanted to eat you, it was a compliment, as they wanted to incorporate your traits. To me it looks like of similar to what Catholics do on some level.

[Stevil]

I have no trouble coexisting with Catholics. In fact I prefer them generally to the evangelicals and most Baptists, for instance. As well, I don't mind having it implied that I'm an embarrassing crank who is ignorant, hysterical and bigoted for calling their beliefs as I see them.

The problem I have with Catholics (oh no, here we go), is that it is very inflexible, they are strongly against gay marriage, against euthanasia, against sex education, against birth control, against STD protection (condoms), against women in certain jobs/roles etc. If they had their way society would be pretty terrible. They must be opposed on these items.

But in saying that, my wife's friend's husband is a Catholic and he is a pretty non political, non judgmental person (well, he seems that way)
My neighbor is devout Orthodox, has a picture of Mary on is front door and almost a shrine in the entrance way of his house, his car has a dangling cross and pictures of Mary and Jesus. But he seems OK. He asked me if I was Catholic, I told him I wasn't religious at all. He didn't try to evangalise me.

Anyway, even these nice people still have these strong beliefs, even if they only enforce it on their own family. I'm just trying to understand it.
I don't see the cannibalism as a threat because it seems they only eat the bread and drink the wine (not actually people's flesh) regardless of what they are imagining at the time. It just seems very odd to me. These are normal people right? But imagining eating Jesus flesh.