War on Religion

[xSilverPhinx]

There is no war on religion. Rather, people who do not like living in a secular society have discovered they can use it as a rallying cry for there war on secularism and rational thought.

Exactly. Some theists do feel picked on because in the past their views have had an unreasonable influence on society and now that unreasonable element is being rolled back and they simply don't like it.

This!  Whenever I hear some point of "proof" about the "war on religion" or "persecution of Christians" it's always something like "They won't even let our kids pray in school anymore!!!!"  But that's obviously not true.  Anybody can pray quietly to themselves at any time.  Heck, they can even pray out loud if it's not disrupting class (for example, in the lunchroom before they eat.).  Schools simply can't show favor for one religious belief over another by having an official, mandated school led prayer.  So basically, if Christians can't force everyone else to pray too, there is a war on religion.    Ridiculous.

This ^

Have you ever heard someone talk about 'spiritual warfare'? It's worth a good listen, if you want an amusing moment. Any perceived instance of "persecution" is like they're being nailed onto a cross themselves.

[Happy_Is_Good]

There is no war on religion. Rather, people who do not like living in a secular society have discovered they can use it as a rallying cry for there war on secularism and rational thought.

I disagree.  A "War" implies that reason is not being used as a means to motivate, and that's what we have here and now on a wide-spread for the first time ever.  Specifically, when religion is mocked, it is not reason at play, but the thrusting of shame and doubt upon the religious, and this is the basis of the Philosophical War that is currently taking place.

The front line of this war are the professional comedians that mock religion and in doing so provide intellectual ammo to a lot of atheists.  A comedian like a Sam Kinnison or a George Carlin is worth 10 Richard Dawkins - and there are a lot of them out there making their message heard amongst young and old. 

The Theists/Atheist Debate will not be decided in a Formal Debate, but as a joke told amongst friends at a gathering, or a party.  Long before Theism dies, Atheism will have become the Zeitgeist of our culture. 

[xSilverPhinx]

Long before Theism dies, Atheism will have become the Zeitgeist of our culture. 

Perhaps, at least until theism or some other religion/superstition emotional crutch becomes the new zeitgeist again...

[Firebird]

Mockery is not the same as war. Maybe a culture clash, a generational shift, an event, but a war?
Was there a war against hippies? There was a massive generational shift and lots of clashes in the street, much more so than between the atheists and religious folks these days, but no one ever calls that a war.

[BonaireBound]

I really appreciate all the great discussion going on here on this topic! I want to reiterate though, my point that we are all victims of the detrimental effects of religion (superstition and nonsense) on a daily basis, owing to the LACK OF PROGRESS that we all could be making but aren't. I want to urge you all once again to watch this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3mtDC2fQo&list=PLF3520A1942B13832&index=1&feature=plpp_video
As Neil puts it "What brilliance may have expressed itself and did not?"

[xSilverPhinx]

Mockery is not the same as war. Maybe a culture clash, a generational shift, an event, but a war?
Was there a war against hippies? There was a massive generational shift and lots of clashes in the street, much more so than between the atheists and religious folks these days, but no one ever calls that a war.

In the broadest sense people are fighting to not let religion interfer in their lives as much as it's used to, and the word hardly seems to apply, but I would call forms of activism and counter-movements wars, based on definition number 4. The creationist movement trying to add that to science classes and the pushback opposing them would be called what, for instance? The new atheist movement is the result of an ideological war, which doesn't exclude religions from the right to exist, though. It's a fight for space. 

war  [wawr] Show IPA noun, verb, warred, war·ring, adjectivenoun
1.
a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.
2.
a state or period of armed hostility or active military operations: The two nations were at war with each other.
3.
a contest carried on by force of arms, as in a series of battles or campaigns: the War of 1812.
4.
active hostility or contention; conflict; contest: a war of words.
5.
aggressive business conflict, as through severe price cutting in the same industry or any other means of undermining competitors: a fare war among airlines; a trade war between nations.

From dictionary.com.

[The Magic Pudding]

Mockery is not the same as war.

I like clever satire directed against religion and politicians of the right.  There is a right aligned satirist that pisses me off though, he has adopted a voice dripping with lordly condescending disdain.  He distorts things totally to gain favour with his audience but it has a polarising effect, he fills me with the urge to build a guillotine or find a Winter Palace to storm.  So there is a danger that certain humour won't help the cause, Animated Dirt has expressed some discomfort with the Atheist Image Dump thread I think.

[xSilverPhinx]

Mockery is not the same as war.

I like clever satire directed against religion and politicians of the right.  There is a right aligned satirist that pisses me off though, he has adopted a voice dripping with lordly condescending disdain.  He distorts things totally to gain favour with his audience but it has a polarising effect, he fills me with the urge to build a guillotine or find a Winter Palace to storm.  So there is a danger that certain humour won't help the cause, Animated Dirt has expressed some discomfort with the Atheist Image Dump thread I think.

Main problem with humour is that it won't help getting certain allies onto your side.

[corgilover]

Why is it always a war on something? A "War on Christmas", a "war on religion", the "war against drugs", the "war on terrorism", etc. Any time you start attaching the term "war" as part of a policy argument or point of view, it becomes a simplistic caricature of the message, one that makes it far too simplistic. Also, saying the new atheists are declaring a "war on religion" is the perfect way to demonize them in the eyes of many in society, which is ultimately self-defeating.

I am not interested in a war against religion. I am interested in pushing for less religious influence in the public sphere, and more emphasis on actual science and reasoning instead. And for religion not to be shoved in my face, and to respect my atheist views. That's not a war against anything. It's an argument, and perhaps a campaign. Until some fundies start attacking me for my views and I have to figure out how to fire a gun to protect myself, I'm not at war with anything except the flies I fry with my electric flyswatter.

Well at least there's not a "war" on women according to Fox News. Oh wait....

[rainbowcat212]

Why is it always a war on something? A "War on Christmas", a "war on religion", the "war against drugs", the "war on terrorism", etc. Any time you start attaching the term "war" as part of a policy argument or point of view, it becomes a simplistic caricature of the message, one that makes it far too simplistic. Also, saying the new atheists are declaring a "war on religion" is the perfect way to demonize them in the eyes of many in society, which is ultimately self-defeating.

I am not interested in a war against religion. I am interested in pushing for less religious influence in the public sphere, and more emphasis on actual science and reasoning instead. And for religion not to be shoved in my face, and to respect my atheist views. That's not a war against anything. It's an argument, and perhaps a campaign. Until some fundies start attacking me for my views and I have to figure out how to fire a gun to protect myself, I'm not at war with anything except the flies I fry with my electric flyswatter.

Well at least there's not a "war" on women according to Fox News. Oh wait....

Well... according to fox news there is a war on a lot of things.

I don't consider myself fighting a "war on religion". i consider myself to be helping people find what they truly believe in. If it turns out that they truly believe in god (or some other religion) I respect that. As long as they respect me, I'll respect them.

[Hector Valdez]

This may be me, but is sounds a lot like the cultural struggles and conflicts that have be borne by humanity from the beginning of time. Not really new, in my opinion.

[Tank]

This may be me, but is sounds a lot like the cultural struggles and conflicts that have be borne by humanity from the beginning of time. Not really new, in my opinion.

Yep. Just the terminology and technology have changed. And the key technology is the Internet and WWW which mean we all live in each others pockets. So in days gone by I'd have never heard of Fred Phelps and not cared about his behaviour, now I can't really avoid the arsehole. So what used to be an isolated idiot is now a cause celebré!

[Happy_Is_Good]

This may be me, but is sounds a lot like the cultural struggles and conflicts that have be borne by humanity from the beginning of time. Not really new, in my opinion.

Not really new?  I disagree.  Here's a link to a short history of Atheism for reference:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

Also, can you point to a broad-based Atheist movement in History before the present?  I don't think you can.

Thanks.

[Happy_Is_Good]

Long before Theism dies, Atheism will have become the Zeitgeist of our culture. 

Perhaps, at least until theism or some other religion/superstition emotional crutch becomes the new zeitgeist again...

No doubt that many will gravitate to some other type of mumbo-jumbo belief in the supernatural.  However, as long as we can dispel the belief of an all-powerful Gangsta God who will burn our arses in hell for eternity if we don't kiss his arse, then we will have come a long way to getting rid of some of the worst beliefs in society.

[Sweetdeath]

Long before Theism dies, Atheism will have become the Zeitgeist of our culture. 

Perhaps, at least until theism or some other religion/superstition emotional crutch becomes the new zeitgeist again...

No doubt that many will gravitate to some other type of mumbo-jumbo belief in the supernatural.  However, as long as we can dispel the belief of an all-powerful Gangsta God who will burn our arses in hell for eternity if we don't kiss his arse, then we will have come a long way to getting rid of some of the worst beliefs in society.

Agreed.