Pondering God's Plan

[Ecurb Noselrub]

A conception of god that is defined by, say, "ultimate love", however, is often decried as not the "real" christian belief, ignoring the fact that ultimate love is a very real part of christian theology, and also ignoring the diversity of religion in favor of an oversimplistic antagonizing view of it.

Several New Testament writings make it clear that love (agape) was very much the core Christian concept of God.  I John 4:8 says that God is love.  Jesus' new commandment was to love one another as he loved (John 13:34).  Paul said the "greatest of these is love." (I Cor. 13)  God's actions in sending Jesus are motivated by love. (John 3:16) 

This concept of God is a radical departure from his presentation in the Old Testament.  A good argument can be made that Jesus tipped his hat to the OT and paid lip service to it, but got away from it's presentation of God and its rules and regulations as soon as he could.  In instituting a "new covenant" with his disciples, it's pretty clear that he intended to do away with the old one.  So while Christianity came out of Judaism, it became its own creature, completely separate from its mother.  Modern Christians would do well to get outof mom's house and  separate themselves from her influence.

[John_5.0]

Going back to the original post about gods plan. One of the best videos I have seen on that topic is from the youtube user theoreticalbullshit,  the video is titled god's Checklist 2.0. I also agree that the trinity is a very...interesting idea but that is about it. Growing up in a Roman Catholic school the trinity was a topic that was frequently talked about. I remember our teacher calling it an "advanced concept". I will post a link of the video when I am by a computer unless someone else can beat me to it.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvRPbsXBVBo&list=UUp8YwJpk7OALmnuJ8d9SUlQ&index=26&feature=plcp&safety_mode=true

[Hector Valdez]

Who, exactly, are the "simpletons" in your estimation?

For my purposes, a simpleton is defined by objective IQ measurements. To the extent that a person requires an explanation to be simplified is the extent of their qualifications towards being a "simpleton". The word was not meant to be used pejoratively.

:edit:

I would imagine any trinity could be defined as the sum of three parts having different functions and grouped together. The difficulty in understanding seems to be that these three parts are assumed to exist in the same temporal and locative state. If one discounts this idea as gibberish, then conceptions of the trinity might, quite logically, be defined in terms of poetic symbol. The father, therefore, being "cause, origin, alpha, creator", etc. The son then being "fulfillment, creation, effect, omega", etc. And of course the holy spirit would be the eternal relationship between the two that pervades all of existence.

*Note: It should be pointed out that this conception of the trinity, while perfectly meshing with traditional theologic concepts and apologetics, is not generally espoused by the majority of christianity, but then again nor should it be expected to be.

[DeterminedJuliet]

As far as I know, accepting that the trinity is a legitimate "miracle" created by God is a doctrine of the Catholic church that is kept to this day. I was certainly taught that it was when I was Catholic and my very Catholic family still hold it to be such.

[Hector Valdez]

Meh. There's always room for interpretation within interpretation. Plus, people in the seminary tend to go on and on about this stuff. From a child's perspective...eh.

[fester30]

Who, exactly, are the "simpletons" in your estimation?

For my purposes, a simpleton is defined by objective IQ measurements. To the extent that a person requires an explanation to be simplified is the extent of their qualifications towards being a "simpleton". The word was not meant to be used pejoratively.

:edit:

I would imagine any trinity could be defined as the sum of three parts having different functions and grouped together. The difficulty in understanding seems to be that these three parts are assumed to exist in the same temporal and locative state. If one discounts this idea as gibberish, then conceptions of the trinity might, quite logically, be defined in terms of poetic symbol. The father, therefore, being "cause, origin, alpha, creator", etc. The son then being "fulfillment, creation, effect, omega", etc. And of course the holy spirit would be the eternal relationship between the two that pervades all of existence.

*Note: It should be pointed out that this conception of the trinity, while perfectly meshing with traditional theologic concepts and apologetics, is not generally espoused by the majority of christianity, but then again nor should it be expected to be.

The idea of one god with multiple personalities isn't original to Christianity, anyway.

[Asherah]

Who, exactly, are the "simpletons" in your estimation?

For my purposes, a simpleton is defined by objective IQ measurements. To the extent that a person requires an explanation to be simplified is the extent of their qualifications towards being a "simpleton". The word was not meant to be used pejoratively.

:edit:

I would imagine any trinity could be defined as the sum of three parts having different functions and grouped together. The difficulty in understanding seems to be that these three parts are assumed to exist in the same temporal and locative state. If one discounts this idea as gibberish, then conceptions of the trinity might, quite logically, be defined in terms of poetic symbol. The father, therefore, being "cause, origin, alpha, creator", etc. The son then being "fulfillment, creation, effect, omega", etc. And of course the holy spirit would be the eternal relationship between the two that pervades all of existence.

*Note: It should be pointed out that this conception of the trinity, while perfectly meshing with traditional theologic concepts and apologetics, is not generally espoused by the majority of christianity, but then again nor should it be expected to be.

The idea of one god with multiple personalities isn't original to Christianity, anyway.

What other religions have had this concept?

[McQ]

Who, exactly, are the "simpletons" in your estimation?

*Note: It should be pointed out that this conception of the trinity, while perfectly meshing with traditional theologic concepts and apologetics, is not generally espoused by the majority of christianity, but then again nor should it be expected to be.

It isn't? With the 1 billion Roman Catholics believing it, and most of the protestant denominations affirming a trinity, how does that not constitute a majority?

Can you clarify, please?

[Truthseeker]

And yet another aspect of the HS is manifested through speaking in other tongues.  Once one is "filled with the Spirit", one is then able to deliver a verbal encrypted message complete with nonsensical murmurings and utterances.  This all under the auspices of god speaking through you to the masses or simply to yourself with an interpretation to follow.  This was my upbringing.       

Great thread Asherah!

[Ali]

I believe that I am um....infected....(don't know what you call it) with the holy spirit every Passover.  After 4 cups of wine and several shots of brandy, my Hebrew is fluent. 

[fester30]

The idea of one god with multiple personalities isn't original to Christianity, anyway.

What other religions have had this concept?

http://egypt-tehuti.org/articles/monotheism-polytheism.html

Egyptians.  The idea that they believed in one god was perhaps a misunderstanding of their ideas.  They believed in Ra as experienced through the various behaviors that came to be known as the other "gods" such as Isis, Osiris, Horus, etc.

So just as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are thought by many Christians to be separate manifestations of the same god, so are Isis, Osiris, Horus of the same Ra.

I don't find it surprising that the Hebrews (gradual journey toward monotheism) and later the Christians would copy practices and ideas of other cultures in their own religious traditions.  That's how civilization works.  People come together and share ideas.

[The Magic Pudding]

The idea that they believed in one god was perhaps a misunderstanding of their ideas.  They believed in Ra as experienced through the various behaviors that came to be known as the other "gods" such as Isis, Osiris, Horus, etc.

Well I hope that doesn't include Set.
Chopping yourself into fourteen pieces and scattering them throughout the land would be weird.
Ah but this is religion, you're not going to get far if you have a problem with weird.

Isis gathered up all the parts of the body, less the phallus (which was eaten by a catfish

My next sock puppet will use a catfish avatar.
Name, hmmm, errrr, I'll have to think on it.

[BooksCatsEtc]

The idea of one god with multiple personalities isn't original to Christianity, anyway.

What other religions have had this concept?

There's also the Triple Goddess concept common among modern Pagans and Wiccans, which was lifted from ancient Greek mythology where several Goddesses were identified that way -- Hera, Hecate and possibly Demeter come immediately to mind.

[Jimmy]

Religion of "the legend of Zelda"   
Although finding the triforce is much easier than finding the holy trinity