Author Topic: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer  (Read 3942 times)

Ali

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2012, 04:13:15 PM »
That's awesome Asherah!  I remember how pleased I was when my brother told me that he doesn't believe in god either.  :)  My brother is kind of like yours though, he goes along with it more so as not to hurt our parents.  I'm still the wicked one.  LOL

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2012, 05:14:35 PM »
That's awesome Asherah!  I remember how pleased I was when my brother told me that he doesn't believe in god either.  :)  My brother is kind of like yours though, he goes along with it more so as not to hurt our parents.  I'm still the wicked one.  LOL
No change there then!

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Asherah

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2012, 02:46:52 AM »
Thanks everyone!! I just had another neat thing happen. My husband just asked me today to send him a list of biblical contradictions. Since there are SO many, he wants 5 from OT and 5 from new. He's willing to consider leaving Christianity if the evidence is strong enough. And, this is where he wants to start. I'm pretty lucky, eh?!!  ;D
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Asherah

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2012, 02:48:57 AM »
That's awesome Asherah!  I remember how pleased I was when my brother told me that he doesn't believe in god either.  :)  My brother is kind of like yours though, he goes along with it more so as not to hurt our parents.  I'm still the wicked one.  LOL

It's good to have someone like minded that's close to my heart.

You are brave to be the wicked unbeliever......bwahahahaha!!!!
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Stevil

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2012, 03:17:02 AM »
Thanks everyone!! I just had another neat thing happen. My husband just asked me today to send him a list of biblical contradictions. Since there are SO many, he wants 5 from OT and 5 from new. He's willing to consider leaving Christianity if the evidence is strong enough. And, this is where he wants to start. I'm pretty lucky, eh?!!  ;D
Hmmm, is your husband really open to atheism?
I think you will find out by seeing if he is asking questions in order to understand or simply to debunk you. I am not sure how a person converts or deconverts.

I haven't read the bible. Only the first few pages (less than 10). No doubt there are many, many contradictions. Are you talking about contradictions with itself or contradictions with scientific knowledge?

No doubt, theists have an answer for it all.

Here are a couple that come to mind
Genesis 1:16
"And God made the lesser light to rule the night"
The moon, as we know is not a source of light. It is a baron piece of rock which reflects the sun's light.

Genesis 1:29
"I give you every seed-bearing plant and every fruit-bearing tree on the face of the earth to be yours for food."
We know that there are many plants which berries will make you sick or dead if consumed as food.

Others will probably provide other examples if you want them to, maybe you already know what you are going to present.

Anyway, good luck. Hopefully, even if he doesn't deconvert, at least he will respect you and your position.

Amicale

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2012, 03:44:41 AM »
Thanks everyone!! I just had another neat thing happen. My husband just asked me today to send him a list of biblical contradictions. Since there are SO many, he wants 5 from OT and 5 from new. He's willing to consider leaving Christianity if the evidence is strong enough. And, this is where he wants to start. I'm pretty lucky, eh?!!  ;D

http://www.bigissueground.com/atheistground/ash-biblecontradictions.shtml is pretty interesting. The guy who put this together did his Masters degree in philosophy, if I recall correctly.


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Sweetdeath

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2012, 06:30:17 AM »
Well, hopefully your husband is actually open minded. Only 5 contradfictions? I would give him 20. There are plenty of them x_x....
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Beachdragon

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2012, 04:28:06 PM »
I'm sorry I'm late on commenting on this.  I'm glad you found an ally in your brother!

As for how I feel, well, I was raised a strict Roman Catholic.  My mother's side were somewhat fanatical, but my mom was also very critical of the church (she had a doctorate in history and specialized in European history and religion, so she knew all the historical BS that the church did over the centries.).

Once I got to about my early 20s I decided I didn't need that stuff in my life so much.  Dated a few pagan guys (I didn't seek them out, it usually just worked out that way.)  Once I married and divorced my first husband (who was a little non denominational evangelical if you can imagine that) I decided I needed to really be a strict Agnostic.

My current husband is probably less of a believer than I am!   :D

I never told my folks about any of it.  It's my choice, I didn't need to tell them everything.  Once you are an adult you don't have to justify any of that stuff to your parents.  (And I don't think you really need to make a case for how you feel, even as a kid either.) 

Best of luck with your hubby.  :) 

I should add, I celebrate Easter and Christmas.  I prefer to look at the secular side and lean a little on the pagan perspective.  Both celebrations were originally celebrations of the changing seasons.  I like to look at it that way.  New life in spring and family and gathering with loved ones at Christmas.  And I think that it's ok to go to church once in a while.  I like the rituals and ceremony and the feeling of community.  I've often said, "This would be a lovely community, if it weren't for all the religious stuff."  haha.

Asherah

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2012, 08:33:35 PM »
Thanks everyone!! I just had another neat thing happen. My husband just asked me today to send him a list of biblical contradictions. Since there are SO many, he wants 5 from OT and 5 from new. He's willing to consider leaving Christianity if the evidence is strong enough. And, this is where he wants to start. I'm pretty lucky, eh?!!  ;D
Hmmm, is your husband really open to atheism?
I think you will find out by seeing if he is asking questions in order to understand or simply to debunk you. I am not sure how a person converts or deconverts.

No, he doesn't want to debunk me. He's not that kind of a person. He really wants to see what I've been learning. I don't really care if my husband converts to atheism. I just want him to see the fallacy in believing the Bible is God's word. I want him to have freedom to think what he wants to think without a religion telling him what to think. I want to have fun and open conversations with him that don't involve all of the pain and tears that we've experienced in the past.....pain because of my de-conversion and just all the the changes we are going through. So, I just want him to be open to possibilities. That's enough for me. And, I'm so glad that he's showing promise.

I just wanted to clarify that I am an atheist with regard to the biblical god. But, in general, I'm probably more agnostic. I still have a lot of thinking to do. I'm currently reading Antony Flew's book There is no a God. So, I could possibly be swayed...not sure yet.
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Stevil

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2012, 09:17:26 PM »
I'm probably more agnostic.
People almost always get the distinction of atheist and agnostic confussed.
Atheism means lacking belief in god/s.
It doesn't not mean belief that there are no god/s, this stance would be hard atheism.

Most people here are weak atheist, meaning that we don't have a belief one way or another, we consider "no god" to be the default position but realise there is no evidence supporting any god theories, so until some strong evidence comes along we remain in the "no god" position.

I'm currently reading Antony Flew's book There is no a God. So, I could possibly be swayed...not sure yet.
deism?

Asherah

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2012, 10:24:17 PM »
I'm currently reading Antony Flew's book There is no a God. So, I could possibly be swayed...not sure yet.
deism?

Not sure yet. I'm in the beginning of it. But, in the back of the book he has a section on the Bible by NT Wright. I don't really get that though. From what I understand, he never accepted any religion. But, apparently, he thought Christianity was something to consider. That really baffles me because he's such an intelligent person and was an extremely prominent atheist for a long time before becoming a theist.
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Amicale

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2012, 12:16:41 AM »


I just wanted to clarify that I am an atheist with regard to the biblical god. But, in general, I'm probably more agnostic. I still have a lot of thinking to do. I'm currently reading Antony Flew's book There is no a God. So, I could possibly be swayed...not sure yet.

You know, I think the best thing any of us can do, including me, you, your husband etc, is just to learn as much as we can, and learn to think critically and carefully. Give yourself time to explore and learn. And I know of course you're giving your husband that too, and that's great. But just don't fall into the trap of being really hasty to slot yourself into one position :) There's a lot to learn about, and consider, and talk about. That's one thing I love about HAF. A couple months ago here when I signed up, most people will recall I prettymuch considered myself an agnostic. Now I find myself leaning towards soft atheism -- I don't see any evidence for God, so I don't believe in God. If evidence came up, I'd definitely be open to examining it, though -- it'd be kinda silly not to. But with regards to the God that's described in the Bible, I certainly don't think much of the way that God's portrayed, and I'd never be able to worship that God ever again. If some kind of hands off, cosmic creator is out there (something more like deism) and we one day found some kind of proof for that, I'd be one of the first to say "hmm, OK, interesting, we learned something new" and just continue on with my life exactly as it is now.

That's one thing I like about skepticism in general -- you can be open to possible changes without being emotionally attached to your non-belief, and having to cling fiercely to it, like some cling to religion. Science is open to change. Our position on God is even technically open to change, if enough proof were presented. In the meantime, we can go about our life and try to enjoy it -- It just is what it is. :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Asherah

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Re: Well....I have to come out this Easter as a non-church goer
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2012, 02:50:35 AM »
I never told my folks about any of it.  It's my choice, I didn't need to tell them everything.  Once you are an adult you don't have to justify any of that stuff to your parents.  (And I don't think you really need to make a case for how you feel, even as a kid either.) 

I agree. I tell myself I don't need to justify anything to my parents. But, I still feel this intense need to. I want them to see my POV, even though that may never happen. But, it is so much easier to just take it easy and not have the feeling that I need to convince them of anything!!
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins