Author Topic: Im going to hell  (Read 12454 times)

Sweetdeath

  • Pink Pony of the Apocalypse
  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7432
  • Coffee is my religion.
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #135 on: April 02, 2012, 03:25:22 AM »
I don't have problems with people telling me I'm going to hell. I do, however, cringe whenever someone offers to "pray for X/Y/Z/ME".
It's a guise.
The important bit for these people is when they tell you that they are going to pray for you.
If the prayer were important then they would just pray without the need to tell you about it.

It is a bit like bragging when you put it that way. They feel they have a strong connection
with 'god.'
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

“I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn’t mend our wounds.

Stevil

  • Simian Provocateur
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4498
  • My mind is a blank canvas
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #136 on: April 02, 2012, 03:55:05 AM »
Maybe the people saying they'll pray for you are trying to show off their strong faith, or trying to make you feel better, or trying to make themselves feel better, or all the above. I don't know.
I assume they do it as a way to evangalise. To show that they are a Christian and they are being "compassionate" towards you and your future.

Like they will get some brownie points from you for making this gesture.
But of course is it misguided. The atheist doesn't really care that an imaginary entity is being prayed to on their behalf.

The annoying thing, I think about it is that the atheist isn't asked if they would like a prayer made on their behalf.

You know, if something is done on my behalf, I would like to be asked if I want it. If they don't ask, then they are assuming they know better than me what I want.

Sandra Craft

  • Surprisingly OK
  • Global Moderator
  • The Cure for Boredom is Curiosity. There is No Cure For Curiosity.
  • *****
  • Posts: 9589
  • Gender: Female
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #137 on: April 02, 2012, 04:05:13 AM »
The annoying thing, I think about it is that the atheist isn't asked if they would like a prayer made on their behalf.

It's true I've rarely been asked if someone may pray for me, I assume because it's taken for granted that the prayer will do me no harm and may do me some good.  Since I agree that it will do me no harm, I've always given my premission the few times I was asked.

Quote
You know, if something is done on my behalf, I would like to be asked if I want it. If they don't ask, then they are assuming they know better than me what I want.

Yeah, that pretty much goes without saying.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Amicale

  • Nerdy cat lady
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5484
  • Gender: Female
  • Nom nom nom
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #138 on: April 02, 2012, 04:43:36 AM »
Maybe the people saying they'll pray for you are trying to show off their strong faith, or trying to make you feel better, or trying to make themselves feel better, or all the above. I don't know.
I assume they do it as a way to evangalise. To show that they are a Christian and they are being "compassionate" towards you and your future.

Like they will get some brownie points from you for making this gesture.
But of course is it misguided. The atheist doesn't really care that an imaginary entity is being prayed to on their behalf.

The annoying thing, I think about it is that the atheist isn't asked if they would like a prayer made on their behalf.

You know, if something is done on my behalf, I would like to be asked if I want it. If they don't ask, then they are assuming they know better than me what I want.

Eh, yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying.

Question is, should we mind if a prayer's being said on our behalf? After all, what do we think the prayer's actually doing? Connecting the believing to God? Or do we think it's just them essentially talking to themselves? :) If someone wants to talk to themself, I guess it doesn't hurt much, if it makes them feel better. If someone were to ask/say "can I pray for you?" or "I'll be praying for you", I personally generally just say "thanks, I appreciate your concern and your kind thoughts." because to me, that's what the desire to pray for me amounts to -- wanting to somehow "help" me, by appealing to God for help. Even if they CAN'T help, they'd like to think they can. I choose to believe most of them mean well and aren't just showing their faith off.

I think the thing that probably ticks at least some atheists off is the presumptuousness of the believer -- they presume that by letting us know they're praying, we'll assent to the prayer and therefore assent to their beliefs being true. If we 'let them pray' for us, then the believer might see it as us admitting that just maybe, prayer works and just maybe, they're right and we're wrong. Particularly if the prayer is "answered". So I guess it couldn't hurt to tell them that while we don't think prayer works, we respect their right to pray because we understand they feel anxiety on our behalf, and the prayer ritual might help calm them.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Stevil

  • Simian Provocateur
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4498
  • My mind is a blank canvas
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #139 on: April 02, 2012, 05:12:39 AM »
So I guess it couldn't hurt to tell them that while we don't think prayer works, we respect their right to pray because we understand they feel anxiety on our behalf, and the prayer ritual might help calm them.
Would it be rude to kinda subtly shrug, like a "whatever" type thing (but not saying it out loud), so as to imply, I've acknowledged that you have just said something to me (not ignoring you), but due to my lack of belief, I don't really have anything constructive to respond back with.

Call me weird but I would struggle to honestly thank them for their offer.

Sweetdeath

  • Pink Pony of the Apocalypse
  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7432
  • Coffee is my religion.
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #140 on: April 02, 2012, 05:24:07 AM »
So I guess it couldn't hurt to tell them that while we don't think prayer works, we respect their right to pray because we understand they feel anxiety on our behalf, and the prayer ritual might help calm them.
Would it be rude to kinda subtly shrug, like a "whatever" type thing (but not saying it out loud), so as to imply, I've acknowledged that you have just said something to me (not ignoring you), but due to my lack of belief, I don't really have anything constructive to respond back with.

Call me weird but I would struggle to honestly thank them for their offer.


You're not weird. I usually am taken back by such assumptions that I share their foolish beliefs. I have to bite my tongue to keep from a snarky remark. Sometimes I am rude, but  I think I have the right.
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

“I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn’t mend our wounds.

Sandra Craft

  • Surprisingly OK
  • Global Moderator
  • The Cure for Boredom is Curiosity. There is No Cure For Curiosity.
  • *****
  • Posts: 9589
  • Gender: Female
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #141 on: April 02, 2012, 05:24:50 AM »
I think the thing that probably ticks at least some atheists off is the presumptuousness of the believer -- they presume that by letting us know they're praying, we'll assent to the prayer and therefore assent to their beliefs being true.

Yeah, they tend to grab at any straw that means we really do believe what they do.  We've seen the argument on this board that merely using the word "god" means we believe in its existence.  I think some version of "Honey, if it makes you feel better then knock yourself out" or "I'll take all the help I can get, thanks" will let them know we appreciate the thought, but that's as far as it goes.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Guardian85

  • Dirty deeds done dirt cheap
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4712
  • Gender: Male
  • Big friendly Viking.
    • Random Ramblings
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #142 on: April 02, 2012, 06:32:35 AM »
How about a simple "Thanks, but I'm sure you can find a more productive use of your time"?


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Sandra Craft

  • Surprisingly OK
  • Global Moderator
  • The Cure for Boredom is Curiosity. There is No Cure For Curiosity.
  • *****
  • Posts: 9589
  • Gender: Female
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #143 on: April 02, 2012, 09:01:59 AM »
How about a simple "Thanks, but I'm sure you can find a more productive use of your time"?

Because then I'd hear about how there is no other more productive use of time than prayer.  Besides, that's their take on it, I respect that's how they feel even if I don't respect the power of prayer itself and unless they're being dicks about it I'm not the one who'll rain on their little prayer parade. 
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Guardian85

  • Dirty deeds done dirt cheap
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4712
  • Gender: Male
  • Big friendly Viking.
    • Random Ramblings
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #144 on: April 02, 2012, 09:53:43 AM »
I suppose it's a clean, inexpensive hobby that doesn't hurt anyone. Let them do as they please.


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Ali

  • Knows where her towel is.
  • Wears a Colander Hat for Special Occasions
  • *****
  • Posts: 6500
  • Gender: Female
  • An Equal Opportunity Mr. Hyde
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #145 on: April 02, 2012, 08:21:42 PM »
I always say "Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts" (assuming I think that the "I'll pray for you" comment is made with kind intentions, for example at my grandma's funeral.  People said something like "Your family is in my prayers" which I took to mean that they were praying that we found peace and healing.  It's a nice enough thought.  It doesn't bother me.)

Stevil

  • Simian Provocateur
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4498
  • My mind is a blank canvas
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #146 on: April 02, 2012, 10:11:44 PM »
I always say "Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts" (assuming I think that the "I'll pray for you" comment is made with kind intentions, for example at my grandma's funeral.  People said something like "Your family is in my prayers" which I took to mean that they were praying that we found peace and healing.  It's a nice enough thought.  It doesn't bother me.)
Yes, its all about perception. I need to think that they are empathetic rather than worry about their faith.

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Global Moderator
  • Still the Silly Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 17361
  • Gender: Female
  • I Spy With My Googly Eyes...
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #147 on: April 02, 2012, 10:28:30 PM »
If someone said that they were praying for me, for whatever reason, I'd consider their intentions to be more important than whether prayer works or not. It's really irrelevant. Prayers to help make me see things their way are really annoying.  

I do find it odd however, how true believers think they will influence the omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenelovent god they believe in. If there was a god who had my best interests at heart, was powerful enough to avoid anything against what's best for me and already knew beforehand everything that was going to happen to me, prayer sort of defeats the purpose.
Give no mercy to your fear.



Stevil

  • Simian Provocateur
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4498
  • My mind is a blank canvas
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #148 on: April 02, 2012, 10:39:57 PM »
If someone said that they were praying for me, for whatever reason, I'd consider their intentions to be more important than whether prayer works or not. It's really irrelevant. Prayers to help make me see things their way are really annoying.  
This too.

I was on a religious forum, and a person told me they would pray for me so that I would accept Jesus.
I asked them to pray for themselves so that they could accept me for who I am rather than change me so that they would find me more palatable.

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Global Moderator
  • Still the Silly Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 17361
  • Gender: Female
  • I Spy With My Googly Eyes...
Re: Im going to hell
« Reply #149 on: April 02, 2012, 10:49:40 PM »
If someone said that they were praying for me, for whatever reason, I'd consider their intentions to be more important than whether prayer works or not. It's really irrelevant. Prayers to help make me see things their way are really annoying.  
This too.

I was on a religious forum, and a person told me they would pray for me so that I would accept Jesus.
I asked them to pray for themselves so that they could accept me for who I am rather than change me so that they would find me more palatable.

I get that sometimes too, but when I let them know how annoyed I am they say that they worry for my immortal soul. ::)

I would like to tell them to mind their own souls first, but I don't want to escalate things, because it can quickly get out of control. If it was a complete stranger though, meh. Let them have it all - the flying insults and more.  
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 10:52:33 PM by xSilverPhinx »
Give no mercy to your fear.