Salutations, Godless Ones

[Michael Reilly]

Hi, Dragonia (and all!) My wife believes in God, but not enough to go to church, if that makes sense. She likes the progressive aspects of Catholicism (social justice, community, things like that) but doesn't care about attending church, so that's all good. My two little girls, though...I do fear that I introduced the mind-virus early, and that as they get older, they will struggle with, and against, the idea of God. I haven't explicitly sat them down and told them about my...journey, I guess, but I will. They are very bright!

This is one of those things that, when I look back at being a parent, I am going to shake my head at myself and say, "I did what I thought was right." As everyone who is a parent knows, it doesn't come with an instruction manual.  I did the best I could at the time. My family really did benefit from the community aspect of belonging to a church. I wish that atheists, or humanists, or secular people, had something similar. We are social beings, and we benefit mightily from community. I do miss that aspect of church, very much.

[Tank]

I'm the result of a 'mixed marriage', my mum was a CoE Christian and my dad an atheist, although I never recall him saying so. My mum took (later dragged) me to church up to about 14 when science and rationalism trounced religion and faith. Just keep your kids pumped up on rationalism and science and I'm sure they'll cope.

[Dave]

With you on the community aspect, Michael, it is one of the very few things I envy about some religious traditions. But atheists tend to be independently minded which sort of conflicts in some ways. Hunanists are more "clubby" but, as declared humanists, fairly few and far between.

There was a group about 7 miles away, in Cheltenham, but it met once a month, had to have a formal agenda to get things done in one evening and had a couple of "social" meetings a year (often in venues pricey enough to exclude all but those on a decent income, top hotels or locations out in the country rather than the local pizza place or Chinese/Indian/Greek... restaurant.) It was run by one very opinionated man and attracted me not.

[Dragonia]

I absolutely hear you on this. I have 3 kids and started them out from their first Sundays, where they belonged: in church. I had a huge extended church family to support us and babysit and check on me and help out while my husband was deployed, twice. It was a beautiful community, functioning how it was "meant to be". I felt loved and valued and a part of something bigger.
It's a tough thing to lose.
My oldest was about 7 at the time that I moved and lost my faith completely, the other two vaguely remember church, but not enough to be confused by my changes.
Now we live in the heart of the Bible belt, and they are older, so conversations happen a lot. They get invited to church, and I allow them to go to the big ones, because it's really just a social event, but I always ask and talk with them about what they heard or learned. They know where I'm coming from, although it was a pretty gradual process of really being explicit about it, and it's very rewarding to have good open conversations with my kids, as they get older and can really grasp some of the nonsense.

We have actually touched on the idea of secular community around here, it's just that being part of a community like that takes commitment, and I love not having church group obligations any more. I did it out of love, but also out of responsibility, and without that feeling of obligation, I don't think I would really follow through on attendance or anything. I suspect that's why there aren't more secular/humanist groups.

[xSilverPhinx]

Hello again, Michael!

I think I might have heard a 'click' down here in Brazil, but it sounded a little more like:

Was that you?

My family really did benefit from the community aspect of belonging to a church. I wish that atheists, or humanists, or secular people, had something similar. We are social beings, and we benefit mightily from community. I do miss that aspect of church, very much.

I was never a theist, and my parents were not overly religious while I was growing up (though my mother did become a born-again Christian after her divorce from my father), so I didn't have that growing up, but while many people feel it is an important aspect of religion, close-knit communities can be found elsewhere. 

I think it is a lot of what keeps people going to churches -- the community it offers. The worst part is, I'd imagine if you live in a small community somewhere in the Bible Belt, for instance, then the alternative for apostates can be scary: ostracism. Some people are so close-minded and afraid of what is different that they avoid that whenever they can.

[Magdalena]

Hello again, Michael!

I think I might have heard a 'click' down here in Brazil, but it sounded a little more like:

Was that you?
...

Welcome back, Michael Reilly.   

[Icarus]

Welcome back Michael. 

Depending on where you live, apostasy or even modest questions about theology can be problematic, even seriously risky as a socially viable point of view. 

As recently as this afternoon I had some recurring annoyance about the ignorant espousals of people like Mike Pence and his many acolytes.  The reason for the current annoyance is that I happened to be reading two different issues of National Geographic.....no not at the same time but consecutively.  Those magazines, and  another favorite, Scientific American are just crawling with perfectly good evidence that our world is actually more than 6000 years old...that some mysterious entity in the sky had not a damned thing to do with our happening to become humans on this Goldilocks chunk of space rock. 

One must wonder why we must put our intelligence aside and be compelled to believe in some divine force or some mysterious thing that has given us absolutely no evidence that we can examine.... Or as the bible has presumed to have recorded: Lord forgive them for they know not what the fuck they do.

I have other mini-rants with which to regale you.