Author Topic: Salutations, Godless Ones  (Read 2957 times)

Michael Reilly

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2012, 12:19:52 PM »
Whoo-wooo! 10 posts!

Guardian85

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2012, 01:42:21 PM »
Whoo-wooo! 10 posts!

I am not impressed. 8)


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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2012, 04:07:36 PM »
Whoo-wooo! 10 posts!

I am not impressed. 8)

Eh, he registered almost 2 days ago. 10 posts in nearly 2 days isn't so bad. Of course, I was a total geek and probably did double that, but I went post-on-HAF happy when I joined, lol.  :D


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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2012, 06:44:04 PM »
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2012, 06:47:06 PM »

Whoo-wooo! 10 posts!



Now you get to look forward to 100, 1000, 2000, etc. Heck, I can’t even remember when I made my first ten!  :D
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 07:05:44 PM by Budhorse4 »
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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2012, 06:49:21 PM »
Hello! My name is Michael. I am a Christian Humanist (I think). I attend a Catholic church with my family, but it's much more cultural than it is theological. My children attend a Catholic school, and we (my wife and I) love the community part of both the school and the church. The religious part, though? Not so much. Lest you think I am committing some sort of spiritual abuse, the faith component of my daughter's education is very, very mellow at her school, so far ("Jesus wants us to be nice to each other. Let's have a food drive!" sort of things). What I want to pass on to my children is a belief in compassion, and I admit I find it much easier to illustrate using Christianity as a vehicle.

I think it's okay for children to believe in God, so long as that belief in God results in things like empathy, reverence, gratitude, tolerance, wonder, and a sense of justice. Compassion is number one. When my girls are older...I think it will be easier to explain what I really think. Ultimately, it's my job to instill those values. The Jesus I know is very, very helpful in this regard.

I recently read The God Delusion and found it thought-provoking and challenging in some parts, quite laughable in others. I am hoping to get some more recommendations about good books to read from all of you.

I do have some philosophical questions about atheism, and the fruits of atheism, but I suppose I'll save those for other parts of the forum.

In any event...nice to meet you all. I hope everyone will be polite and kind.
Having no children myself I can't comment too much, but I think the only important thing is that children have some breathing room to come up with their own opinions as they grow into adulthood.
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Ali

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2012, 07:48:18 PM »
Quote
I think it's okay for children to believe in God, so long as that belief in God results in things like empathy, reverence, gratitude, tolerance, wonder, and a sense of justice. Compassion is number one. When my girls are older...I think it will be easier to explain what I really think. Ultimately, it's my job to instill those values. The Jesus I know is very, very helpful in this regard.]I think it's okay for children to believe in God, so long as that belief in God results in things like empathy, reverence, gratitude, tolerance, wonder, and a sense of justice. Compassion is number one. When my girls are older...I think it will be easier to explain what I really think. Ultimately, it's my job to instill those values. The Jesus I know is very, very helpful in this regard.
 

As an atheist, I agree with the beliefs that you are trying to instill, I just don't find that a belief in god is necessary (or even all that helpful) in instilling them.  The way I was brought up in a Christian home, you were supposed to be a good person because god and jesus say so.  That's an external control - it's like teaching a kid not to break the law simply because they will go to jail.  IMO, it's far more useful to help children develop internal motivations to "be good."  We help others not because someone else says so, but because it's the right thing to do, and because it makes our hearts happy.  We wonder at the beauty of nature not because god made it, but because nature is intrisically beautiful and amazing.  And so on.  

I just felt the need to commment, because I read that you were wondering about the atheistic source of morals and whatnot.  My sense of morals are probably not so different from yours, they are simply stripped of the need for a supernatural source.

Anyway, welcome, and I hope that you enjoy your time here.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:50:32 PM by Ali »

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2012, 08:06:35 PM »
10 posts, fantastic.
You can start asking questions now, if you want to learn more about the atheistic viewpoint. Just start a thread somewhere.
You will find that we aren't all aligned. We have no scripture or atheist school of guide so we use our own reasoning.

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2012, 08:26:46 PM »
I agree with ali's points.

Btw, welcome to HAF. I see the great Asmo hasn't posted here yet. Hehe. Congrats on 10 posts.


Children dont need to.believe in a god(s) to act kind or do selfless things. I find it better to just teach them why something isnt okay, rather then going "cuz a god says so".
That seems like lazy parentng...
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Michael Reilly

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2012, 12:03:48 AM »
I am in full agreement that the 'do it because God is watching' thing, or the "because Jesus said so thing' is counterproductive and silly. Off topic, we don't do much Santa Claus in my house, either. The whole "He sees you when you are being bad" sounds like some sort of holiday myth created by George Orwell. We DO have an elf on the shelf, and he ONLY sees the good things you do. He is quite blind to bad things. The more nice things you do, the more the elf notices, the less likely he is to go on a killing rampage.

Anyhow: I tell the kiddos that, to me, God is three things: light, life, and love. Where you find those three things, you find God. My own definition of God is much more complex and nuanced (holons! synergies! 1+1+1 =s 4!) but for purposes of explaining why we need to be good, I find the three Ls to be quite useful.

I'm sure that many atheist parents impart the same lessons, just in a different way.

You are probably sensing: I'm not a real orthodox Christian. Still: I am a Christian. In my own way. :)

Stevil

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2012, 12:18:08 AM »
What doe you mean when you say "light"?

Michael Reilly

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2012, 12:20:27 AM »
I just go to bust out of the newbie forum! Bring it over to Philosophy, mi amigo.

MadBomr101

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2012, 12:41:24 AM »
I think it's okay for children to believe in God, so long as that belief in God results in things like empathy, reverence, gratitude, tolerance, wonder, and a sense of justice. Compassion is number one. When my girls are older...I think it will be easier to explain what I really think. Ultimately, it's my job to instill those values. The Jesus I know is very, very helpful in this regard.

Hi and Welcome, Mike.

The above is all fine but why don't you instill these virtues into your girls without shoehorning the magical space jockey into the mix?  Jesus is useful in this regard in much the same way Humpty Dumpty is useful when discussing various recipes that call for breaking some eggs.
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Michael Reilly

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2012, 12:51:45 AM »
Humpty Dumpty was actually a cannon, FYI.
I find it easier to use God as an reason for being good whilst dealing with a 6 and 4 year old, quite frankly. When they are older, I'll tell them what I really think. It's too hard for them. Hell, it's hard for me.

MadBomr101

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Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2012, 01:34:55 AM »
Humpty Dumpty was actually a cannon, FYI.
I find it easier to use God as an reason for being good whilst dealing with a 6 and 4 year old, quite frankly. When they are older, I'll tell them what I really think. It's too hard for them. Hell, it's hard for me.

So, sort of like Santa is to the Xmas spirit, Jesus is the fictional embodiment of the virtues you'd like your girls to have?  Okay.  I see what you're doing and I get it.  The only problem is that many children raised on Jesus tend to cling to the fallacy as reality their entire lives and it can really do some damage.  Case in point:  One of my neighbors has a daughter who tried to "Save" me when she was seven years old.

Seven!

I've watched her grow to adulthood (she's 20 now) and she is so messed up on God that she is incapable of having a thought that isn't motivated by her religious beliefs.  She has no life outside of Xianity and associates only with other Xians.  She's a very enthusiastic Xian activist who champions her causes with all the energy of her youth, and, if she had her way, would plunge this country back into the Dark Ages with her ridiculous beliefs.  If this sounds just fine to you, then, whatever, if not, then that's something for the atheists of the world to be hopeful about because this world needs fewer people like this complately brainwashed young woman.

Responsible parenting and Xianity are frequently mutually exclusive.  Fortunately, you seem much more reasonable than the Xian nutjob this young woman's mother is so that relaxes me. 

Just my $0.02.
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