Author Topic: Salutations, Godless Ones  (Read 2264 times)

Sandra Craft

  • Surprisingly OK
  • Global Moderator
  • The Cure for Boredom is Curiosity. There is No Cure For Curiosity.
  • *****
  • Posts: 8926
  • Gender: Female
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2012, 11:31:32 PM »
Work on getting to that 10th post, there are several active threads right now that'll interest you.
Sandy

  
"I think this is the prettiest world -- as long as you don't mind a little dying, how could there be a day in your whole life that doesn't have its splash of happiness?"  from The Kingfisher, by Mary Oliver

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Administrator
  • Silly Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 13862
  • Gender: Female
  • "Fire together, wire together"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2012, 11:40:45 PM »
@xSilverPhinx, believe me, I already know what Christians think!
Largely speaking, my questions about atheism revolve around morality. In the absence of an objective belief in right and wrong...how does one determine what the correct course of action is? For me, Judeo-Christian values (or, at least, my interpretation of them) serve as a moral touchstone. If I didn't believe that there was a moral law in the universe (Catholics call it 'Natural Moral Law'), well...why be good? Or, why not define good on my own?
Stuff like that.

Well one thing for sure is that I doubt you'd find two atheists who both agree on one entire moral system. :) Most atheists are humanistic, because well, we're human so it makes sense and secondly it's the natural conclusion for anyone who doesn't believe in a competing moral system based on gods and religions. From my point of view, theistic moral systems are purely authoritarian systems that have culturally objectified, but are not actual objective laws. When you've contributed 10 posts it's be easier to discuss on the many threads on morality.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 11:42:46 PM by xSilverPhinx »
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Michael Reilly

  • Made of Star Stuff
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • "Is it behind the rabbit?"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2012, 11:51:16 PM »
I'm pretty much at the point in my thinking where I don't care what people believe, I care what people do. If you are an ardent atheist, and I'm a Christian, we would probably find much to disagree about with regard to how the universe works. With that said, if we are both working to make the world a better place, helping those in need, being realistic about the problems our species and our planet are facing, and trying as best we can to live our lives with integrity...that's enough for me.


Traveler

  • The Believer That Wasn't There
  • *
  • Posts: 281
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2012, 11:59:46 PM »
Hello and welcome. I'm looking forward to your 10th post so we can dig into these topics further.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Stevil

  • Simian Provocateur
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4498
  • My mind is a blank canvas
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2012, 12:09:33 AM »
I'm pretty much at the point in my thinking where I don't care what people believe, I care what people do. If you are an ardent atheist, and I'm a Christian, we would probably find much to disagree about with regard to how the universe works. With that said, if we are both working to make the world a better place, helping those in need, being realistic about the problems our species and our planet are facing, and trying as best we can to live our lives with integrity...that's enough for me.
In Christianity, the belief is that the unbeliever goes to hell or eternal damnation for the crime of unbelief. This perspective makes us (atheists) "immoral" regardless of our actions. Some people look to outlaw immoral behaviour and punish people whom are immoral. Dangerous huh?

I'm glad you don't judge us based on belief or unbelief, I like tolerant Christians.

Michael Reilly

  • Made of Star Stuff
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • "Is it behind the rabbit?"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2012, 12:12:03 AM »
Quote
Some people look to outlaw immoral behaviour and punish people whom are immoral. Dangerous huh?

Depends on what that immoral behavior is. Stealing, rape, murder...all immoral, wouldn't you agree? We punish and imprison those who commit these crimes. In a world without moral absolutes, how do we determine what crimes we will punish, and what behaviors are not criminal? That, to me, is much more dangerous.

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Administrator
  • Silly Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 13862
  • Gender: Female
  • "Fire together, wire together"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2012, 12:41:58 AM »
I'm pretty much at the point in my thinking where I don't care what people believe, I care what people do.

Makes perfect sense, we share that in common. You're the kind of Christian that I could live with. ;D

We're actually a nice and mostly polite bunch here, especially when compared to other forums of the same inclination. One thing you probably expect is your beliefs will be challenged. One thing you most certainly do not expect is our resident grumpy grey lump gnawing at your ankles at first. I can't really guarantee anything, he has his own evil mind bent on world domination, you see ;)

Just letting you know ;D 
 
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Too Few Lions

  • Living a Thoughtcrime
  • ****
  • Posts: 1005
  • utter poppycock
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2012, 12:48:02 AM »
hi Michael, welcome to the forum. I think you and Stevil may have some interesting debates on morality. I'll look forward to seeing what questions you ask, suffice to say you don't have to believe in the existence of gods to behave well towards others. I think morality is as much in the realm of philosophy as it is religion.

Michael Reilly

  • Made of Star Stuff
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • "Is it behind the rabbit?"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 12:50:46 AM »
Thank you again, everyone, for being so nice. I like nice. Nice is good.
Atheists have a bad reputation, unfortunately, which I'm sure is unfair to a great many of you.
Christians have a bad reputation, too, which is also unfortunate (although admittedly well deserved in a great many instances).
I'm looking forward to learning more.

Stevil

  • Simian Provocateur
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4498
  • My mind is a blank canvas
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 01:17:42 AM »
Depends on what that immoral behavior is. Stealing, rape, murder...all immoral, wouldn't you agree?
Most likely a surprise to you, my answer to your question is no. My philosophical stance is that of an amoralist, I have no belief in morality, be it absolute morality or subjective morality.

We punish and imprison those who commit these crimes. In a world without moral absolutes, how do we determine what crimes we will punish, and what behaviors are not criminal?
We look to protect ourselves and our society.
If actions such as stealing, rape, murder put ourselves (and by extension our society) in danger then we must protect ourselves by outlawing them, providing deterants and consequences.

If there is no danger, of what concern is it to us whether others are perceived to act morally or immorally. We aren't god, it is not our obligation to judge each other.


BTW, you are still within 10 posts, so we ought to be getting to know you better.
What are your hobbies? Any sports, How do you pass time?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 01:24:13 AM by Stevil »

Sandra Craft

  • Surprisingly OK
  • Global Moderator
  • The Cure for Boredom is Curiosity. There is No Cure For Curiosity.
  • *****
  • Posts: 8926
  • Gender: Female
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 01:26:45 AM »
I think you and Stevil may have some interesting debates on morality.

I'm thinking there'll be even more interesting debates with ThinkAnarchy.

BTW, thought of another book if you haven't read it yet, Stephen Jay Gould's Rocks of Ages.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 07:57:39 AM by BooksCatsEtc »
Sandy

  
"I think this is the prettiest world -- as long as you don't mind a little dying, how could there be a day in your whole life that doesn't have its splash of happiness?"  from The Kingfisher, by Mary Oliver

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 29808
  • Gender: Male
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 08:31:35 AM »
Thank you again, everyone, for being so nice. I like nice. Nice is good.
Atheists have a bad reputation, unfortunately, which I'm sure is unfair to a great many of you.
Christians have a bad reputation, too, which is also unfortunate (although admittedly well deserved in a great many instances).
I'm looking forward to learning more.

Atheists have suffered from bad publicity because of their habit of pointing at theists (the majority of people, in the majority of societies) and 'laughing' at their 'stupidity'. And as Douglas Adams pointed out 'Nobody likes a smart arse'  ;D
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Guardian85

  • Dirty deeds done dirt cheap
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4667
  • Gender: Male
  • Big friendly Viking.
    • Random Ramblings
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 08:53:10 AM »
Thank you again, everyone, for being so nice. I like nice. Nice is good.
Atheists have a bad reputation, unfortunately, which I'm sure is unfair to a great many of you.
Christians have a bad reputation, too, which is also unfortunate (although admittedly well deserved in a great many instances).
I'm looking forward to learning more.

Atheists have suffered from bad publicity because of their habit of pointing at theists (the majority of people, in the majority of societies) and 'laughing' at their 'stupidity'. And as Douglas Adams pointed out 'Nobody likes a smart arse'  ;D

But sometimes something is so ridiculus that smart assery is the only reply available in sufficient quantity.

Anyway, welcome Michael. 


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Michael Reilly

  • Made of Star Stuff
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • "Is it behind the rabbit?"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 10:20:17 AM »
@Stevil, I think you and I will have some good discussions!

The Magic Pudding

  • The black swan of trespass
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4913
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 01:02:02 PM »
Atheists have suffered from bad publicity because of their habit of pointing at theists (the majority of people, in the majority of societies) and 'laughing' at their 'stupidity'. And as Douglas Adams pointed out 'Nobody likes a smart arse'  ;D

DA has scientific establishment characters punish the inventor of the improbability drive, his threatening brilliance is dismissed as smart arsery. 
If you are going to quote the prophet, (may he never misplace his towel) you should do so in context.  ;)