Author Topic: Re: Your conversion to atheism (Derail about faith)  (Read 3843 times)

history_geek

  • A Frood Who Really Knows Where Their Towel Is
  • **
  • Posts: 490
  • Gender: Male
  • Nobody here but us
Re: Your conversion to atheism (Derail about faith)
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2012, 06:46:29 PM »
To make a quick side note on persecutions:

I haven't looked up a dictionary definition for the word, but I've always associated it with someone telling someone else to behave in certain way or preventing them from behaving in a manner that this first person (for whatever reason) does not agree with or condone, by using threats or acts of violence.

For example, what happened to Xtians prior and some time after Emperor Constantine's rule, and what happened to non-xtians during late 4th century.

For those interested in the latter:
THE CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION OF PAGANISM
(lists several books about the subject)
Christianity and its Persecutions of Pagans
(I also recommend visiting the main page, as the site is about the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Role of the Christian Religion in its development". Seemed like an interesting read)

I didn't include similar links about the persecution of Xtians, as I think we are well familiar with the subject, to a greater or lesser degree.

Furthermore, although it is certainly true that in certain countries and areas of the world, even to this day, one will be oppressed and perhaps even persecuted for believing differently then others, or not believing at all. It would be denying the facts to say this does not happen. However, to equate it with ridicule that the theists (or rather, their beliefs systems) in the western world (who happen to be mostly xtians, if they were, say, hindus, I doubt the treatment would be much different) have to "endure" is ludicrous. As they say, blasphemy is a victimless crime.

Personally I think oppressing, let alone persecuting anyone for their beliefs is just plain stupid. I think we all have a right to believe whatever we want (albeit it isn't a "god given" right. For some reason that saying seems like mental masturbation to me, if you'll excuse the rather...disturbing mental image), but no-one ever has the right to force others to believe what they believe, no matter what the reason (key word: force). And really, people should be learn to laugh, even when their beliefs are the center of the joke....
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C Clarke's Third Law
"Any sufficiently advanced alien is indistinguishable from a god."
 Pierre-Simon, marquis de Laplace:
Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothése - I do not require that hypothesis[img]http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/4eef2cc3548cc9844a491b22ad384546.gif[/i

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Global Moderator
  • Luxembourg Trembles!
  • *****
  • Posts: 16940
  • Gender: Female
  • I Spy With My Googly Eyes...
Re: Re: Your conversion to atheism (Derail about faith)
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2012, 07:19:07 PM »
Not to mention Chrisitanity even persecuted and oppressed other minority Christian groups. The idea that some people have that the early Christians peacefuly endured everything and won followers to their side that way is a bit naively romanticised.

I recommened the movie Agora (about Hypatia), in case anyone's interested. It's set during the time when Christians destroyed the library of Alexandria.

But anyways, you want an example of real persecution, look at what's happening in the Sunni/Xiite struggle in Iraque. Sunnies are being literally massacered (not just laughed at) just because they have a Sunni name. No other reason needed.

And on the other hand you have Christians in the Western world who have never (despite what they say) been persecuted, suffering from severe persecution complex. It just baffles me ::)

But anyways this was more of a rant than anything.   
Give no mercy to your fear.



Amicale

  • Nerdy cat lady
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5484
  • Gender: Female
  • Nom nom nom
Re: Your conversion to atheism (Derail about faith)
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2012, 08:44:41 PM »
AD, just wanted to let you know that I read your response and appreciate the time you took with it -- and no, it didn't come off as unkind at all.  :)

I wanted to give myself the chance to think it over some before responding, so I'll get to it, probably this evening. Thanks!


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Amicale

  • Nerdy cat lady
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5484
  • Gender: Female
  • Nom nom nom
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2012, 05:39:58 AM »
Quote from: AnimatedDirt
AD, I was a Christian for several years. I started to lose my faith, despite feeling a need for God. Of course I felt one. With all my heart, I wanted to believe. In so many ways, it would have made life a lot more comforting, if not easier. So unfortunately, you can't just say that first, one must feel a need of God, then faith comes in. I wish it were that simple. How can you answer the question of someone wanting God, wanting to know God, and at the same time losing their faith without being able to get it back? How can you answer the question of someone having more questions than answers, even if they wished with all their heart that the damned questions would just go away? I use 'you' generally, not you, AD, although you're welcome to answer them only if you'd care to. As it so happened, I asked for faith non-stop. I felt myself losing faith, and I tried hard to keep hold of it. I prayed constantly. Nothing. Read my bible. No reassurance there -- if anything, I was reminded that God spits lukewarm people like I was out of his mouth. I attended different churches, talked to tons of different Christians, just kept praying and hoping and trying again and again to 'come back to God', begged him for all the 'second chances' I possibly could.... and finally, after years of that, I realized I was on the outside looking in, and it certainly wasn't through lack of trying or caring.

It certainly sounds like you really wanted to be a Christian and believe.  I'm wondering how long of a time this took...to lose your faith?  What was it about God you wanted so deeply?  What questions did you need answers to that caused this deep want to disapear?  I ask because its interesting that some can have the same questions, needing answers, but are content to not know the answer.  Some things are going to remain in the unanswered questions column throughout life.  Within your framework of belief as a secular humanist, are all your questions answered or are there some that you are able to leave unanswered for a later date or even never answered in your lifetime?  Have any of these caused you to lose your secular humanist view, or causing doubt?

Well, lets see. I'd say there was a period of 5 or 6 very long years where I was fighting to keep my faith, and slowly losing it. I know I was driving my friends and family nuts, because faith seemed so easy to them -- either you had it, or you didn't, but you didn't really have to THINK about it. If you believed, you believed. If you were an atheist, you were an atheist. For me, I wanted to believe, you're right. I was also finding it harder and harder to, and the last couple years of that struggle really sealed it for me.

As for what questions I had as a theist that left me needing answers, they're unfortunately more of a personal, emotional variety I'd just as soon not get into on an open board. But suffice it to say, they plagued me and they were very real, and very significant to me. They mostly had to do with the way God interacted with his creation, and with what God allowed and didn't. Within my secular humanist framework, I can actually say that yes, all the old questions are gone. In that sense, I have peace. I certainly have lots of new questions, mostly about the way the universe works, or practical questions about how we as humans can successfully help other humans -- but I'm OK with those being answered at a later date, or gradually, or partially now, partially later. The difference is that the questions I have now have more to do with human discovery and human progress and dialoging/working with others to actually find answers, rather than asking a personal question of a personal omniscient, omnipresent God.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
Quote from: Amicale
As for your question, considering the knowledge and understanding I have now (a secular, humanistic worldview, personally), did I really want faith back then? The answer is yes. Absolutely. And I'll put myself out there because as unpopular as me saying this might be to fellow nonbelievers.... if I'm absolutely honest, I'd love to be able to have faith in some kind of loving creator who I knew would take care of everyone, comfort the hurting, heal the broken, make the wrongs right again. If we had evidence that kind of creator existed, if we begged for faith and received it, begged for healing and comfort (for not just ourselves but others) and received it, asked that God to help those so desperately in need... and all that actually happened.... now, that would be something. If we could actually know that there was some tangible proof for the very comforting stories, I suspect more of us might be inclined to give those very comforting stories another shot.

I'm not sure what you were taught as a Christian.  I don't really know your background.  What I can tell you is what I've been taught since being a child.  That this life is not fair.  That I may be put to death for my belief(s).  That a full and happy/wealthy life is not guaranteed, but much of our wealth and happiness depends on us alone.  That we do no posess all the answers to our many questions.  That while God can do many things, He probably will not do everything we desire be done.  That we see only what we can see, we may not see everything.  That this God does love us, that He came and died the death of a sinner (we all die, I don't think we disagree), but was innocent of any sin, that to die in this life is of no real consequence considering the better life.   That He will return to find some who have remained faithful despite unanswered questions. 

My general background is a vague Catholic upbringing (occasional church, youth group, bible study) to about the age of 12 or 13, after which I bounced around like crazy through just about every Protestant denomination in walking or bussing distance, interspersed with occasional severe bouts of extreme doubt that went on and off for years. Theologically, I've been all over the Christian and secular map. But basically, I came to believe more or less what you said you'd been taught -- this life isn't fair, Jesus didn't come to make this life better, etc. I was never taught that I might die for my beliefs, although I knew of martrys in other countries who certainly were dying for theirs. I was taught that if you persevere to the end, despite your questions, you'd have eternal life with God, etc etc. My basic trouble is, I think I was born with a curious nature. And when I have a question, I'm unfortunately generally unable to let it go until I've pursued it, asked it, discussed it, etc. It's just how I am. :) Some people can have questions and not be swayed by them. Fair enough.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
Quote from: Amicale
For some people here on this board, they may not believe in God because they see no need for a God, wouldn't want to know a God, wouldn't be interested in following a God even if that God were actually kind and loving. Then for others of us who USED to believe.... we (generally speaking) probably no longer do believe because we've seen something very, very broken in the system and as much as we'd like to, going back just isn't something we could probably do. Instead, for myself, I've forged ahead the best I know how. I've learned morality for its own sake, not for God's. I've learned a lot about the world around me. I'm still learning, and I've come to deeply appreciate life as I see it, not as I think and wish it ought to be. And that's as honest as I can be.

I appreciate the honesty.  I will say that you lost faith in God for unanswered questions to move to another position of different unanswered questions.  You've put faith in yourself to forge ahead as best you know, yet without all the answers.  you trust Man will come to the answers, but don't know when.  You've learned the morality of this life which you must agree, changes from society to society and will continue to change from generation to generation.  What you've learned today may be irrelevant tomorrow.  You've learned a lot about the world around you.  To what end?  Is it not widely accepted that we, man, will probably be the undoing of this earth? That what took the universe billions of years to build, Man may be able to kill off in a few hundred years?  That you're still learning...you still have questions and many unanswered.  You appreciate this life.  You deny God exists and appreciate THIS life?  This life is short and unfair and you accept this.  You've traded one belief for another "better" belief, and yet are in the same position as before...worse to some degree as beyond this, there is no KNOWN hope, but in yet unanswered questions.  A trade has been made.  One set of unanswered questions for another set of unanswered questions.  That's as honest as I can be.

(I hope my words are not in an unkind tone)     

Well, there are a lot of questions here. But basically, yes, I appreciate this life, despite it being short and unfair. Why? Because if I see no evidence for God's existence, then technically, there's nothing supernatural out there responsible for its creation, or for the state it's in now. There's nothing to be angry at. Nobody to shake a fist at, and say 'why the heck are you allowing this?' other than myself and my fellow humans. But taking the supernatural out of the equation leaves me and everyone else here responsible for making this world a better place. Not God. And there's no option for deferring happiness to an afterlife. We either help people out here, and make life a little better now, or it'll never happen. I admit that I HATE that there's no much injustice in this world. There's a lot that's broken.

But that being said, there IS hope, and its this -- we have each other. For every rotten person out there who's willing to destroy, there's a good person out there willing to heal and love. For every violent person, there's a peaceful one. There's the hope that we can do everything we personally can to make this world better. There's the hope that we can work together to make it happen. I believe there are good people everywhere. Morality changes from society to society, but it changes as understanding and education grow. What I'm trying to say (sorry, I am tired and sick) is that I have not written this earth off as a complete waste. When humans suffer, others step up to help them. When there's hunger, we offer food. When there's disaster, we offer relief. When something wrong happens, a lot of us do our best to put an end to it. So, that's the hope I have. That we humans aren't all bad, and that most of us are good, that most of us love and care and give a damn. :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

DeterminedJuliet

  • The Stone Lady of HAF
  • Global Moderator
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4396
  • Gender: Female
  • Don't Blink
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2012, 06:30:31 PM »
But that being said, there IS hope, and its this -- we have each other. For every rotten person out there who's willing to destroy, there's a good person out there willing to heal and love. For every violent person, there's a peaceful one. There's the hope that we can do everything we personally can to make this world better. There's the hope that we can work together to make it happen. I believe there are good people everywhere.



:)
"We’ve thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you’re dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Amicale

  • Nerdy cat lady
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5484
  • Gender: Female
  • Nom nom nom
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2012, 06:37:00 PM »
But that being said, there IS hope, and its this -- we have each other. For every rotten person out there who's willing to destroy, there's a good person out there willing to heal and love. For every violent person, there's a peaceful one. There's the hope that we can do everything we personally can to make this world better. There's the hope that we can work together to make it happen. I believe there are good people everywhere.



:)

Thank you for this! It made me smile. I'll take those odds, too!  :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Sandra Craft

  • Surprisingly OK
  • Global Moderator
  • The Cure for Boredom is Curiosity. There is No Cure For Curiosity.
  • *****
  • Posts: 9559
  • Gender: Female
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2012, 07:24:29 PM »
Thank you for this! It made me smile. I'll take those odds, too!  :)

Make that ditto for me.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Ali

  • Knows where her towel is.
  • Wears a Colander Hat for Special Occasions
  • *****
  • Posts: 6500
  • Gender: Female
  • An Equal Opportunity Mr. Hyde
Re: Re: Your conversion to atheism (Derail about faith)
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2012, 06:21:35 PM »
Re: the persecution of Christians in the US

Whenever Christians are denied the "right" to institutionalize their religion, they cry persecution and claim that their freedom of religion is being violated.  No baby Jesus on the courthouse lawn during the month of December?  Persecution.  No official prayer in school?  Persecution.  No teaching of their creation myth in science classrooms?  Persecution.  By the Christian definition of persecution, every day that my company refuses to accept Miss Vickies Jalepeno Chips as the Official Chip of the Denver Office, I am being persecuted.   >:(

Amicale

  • Nerdy cat lady
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5484
  • Gender: Female
  • Nom nom nom
Re: Re: Your conversion to atheism (Derail about faith)
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2012, 06:27:20 PM »
Re: the persecution of Christians in the US

Whenever Christians are denied the "right" to institutionalize their religion, they cry persecution and claim that their freedom of religion is being violated.  No baby Jesus on the courthouse lawn during the month of December?  Persecution.  No official prayer in school?  Persecution.  No teaching of their creation myth in science classrooms?  Persecution.  By the Christian definition of persecution, every day that my company refuses to accept Miss Vickies Jalepeno Chips as the Official Chip of the Denver Office, I am being persecuted.   >:(

You most certainly are! Those chips are ah-MAY-zing!  ;)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

AnimatedDirt

  • Banned
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3211
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2012, 04:02:57 PM »
Quote from: AnimatedDirt
AD, I was a Christian for several years. I started to lose my faith, despite feeling a need for God. Of course I felt one. With all my heart, I wanted to believe. In so many ways, it would have made life a lot more comforting, if not easier. So unfortunately, you can't just say that first, one must feel a need of God, then faith comes in. I wish it were that simple. How can you answer the question of someone wanting God, wanting to know God, and at the same time losing their faith without being able to get it back? How can you answer the question of someone having more questions than answers, even if they wished with all their heart that the damned questions would just go away? I use 'you' generally, not you, AD, although you're welcome to answer them only if you'd care to. As it so happened, I asked for faith non-stop. I felt myself losing faith, and I tried hard to keep hold of it. I prayed constantly. Nothing. Read my bible. No reassurance there -- if anything, I was reminded that God spits lukewarm people like I was out of his mouth. I attended different churches, talked to tons of different Christians, just kept praying and hoping and trying again and again to 'come back to God', begged him for all the 'second chances' I possibly could.... and finally, after years of that, I realized I was on the outside looking in, and it certainly wasn't through lack of trying or caring.

It certainly sounds like you really wanted to be a Christian and believe.  I'm wondering how long of a time this took...to lose your faith?  What was it about God you wanted so deeply?  What questions did you need answers to that caused this deep want to disapear?  I ask because its interesting that some can have the same questions, needing answers, but are content to not know the answer.  Some things are going to remain in the unanswered questions column throughout life.  Within your framework of belief as a secular humanist, are all your questions answered or are there some that you are able to leave unanswered for a later date or even never answered in your lifetime?  Have any of these caused you to lose your secular humanist view, or causing doubt?

Well, lets see. I'd say there was a period of 5 or 6 very long years where I was fighting to keep my faith, and slowly losing it. I know I was driving my friends and family nuts, because faith seemed so easy to them -- either you had it, or you didn't, but you didn't really have to THINK about it. If you believed, you believed. If you were an atheist, you were an atheist. For me, I wanted to believe, you're right. I was also finding it harder and harder to, and the last couple years of that struggle really sealed it for me.

As for what questions I had as a theist that left me needing answers, they're unfortunately more of a personal, emotional variety I'd just as soon not get into on an open board. But suffice it to say, they plagued me and they were very real, and very significant to me. They mostly had to do with the way God interacted with his creation, and with what God allowed and didn't. Within my secular humanist framework, I can actually say that yes, all the old questions are gone. In that sense, I have peace. I certainly have lots of new questions, mostly about the way the universe works, or practical questions about how we as humans can successfully help other humans -- but I'm OK with those being answered at a later date, or gradually, or partially now, partially later. The difference is that the questions I have now have more to do with human discovery and human progress and dialoging/working with others to actually find answers, rather than asking a personal question of a personal omniscient, omnipresent God.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
Quote from: Amicale
As for your question, considering the knowledge and understanding I have now (a secular, humanistic worldview, personally), did I really want faith back then? The answer is yes. Absolutely. And I'll put myself out there because as unpopular as me saying this might be to fellow nonbelievers.... if I'm absolutely honest, I'd love to be able to have faith in some kind of loving creator who I knew would take care of everyone, comfort the hurting, heal the broken, make the wrongs right again. If we had evidence that kind of creator existed, if we begged for faith and received it, begged for healing and comfort (for not just ourselves but others) and received it, asked that God to help those so desperately in need... and all that actually happened.... now, that would be something. If we could actually know that there was some tangible proof for the very comforting stories, I suspect more of us might be inclined to give those very comforting stories another shot.

I'm not sure what you were taught as a Christian.  I don't really know your background.  What I can tell you is what I've been taught since being a child.  That this life is not fair.  That I may be put to death for my belief(s).  That a full and happy/wealthy life is not guaranteed, but much of our wealth and happiness depends on us alone.  That we do no posess all the answers to our many questions.  That while God can do many things, He probably will not do everything we desire be done.  That we see only what we can see, we may not see everything.  That this God does love us, that He came and died the death of a sinner (we all die, I don't think we disagree), but was innocent of any sin, that to die in this life is of no real consequence considering the better life.   That He will return to find some who have remained faithful despite unanswered questions. 

My general background is a vague Catholic upbringing (occasional church, youth group, bible study) to about the age of 12 or 13, after which I bounced around like crazy through just about every Protestant denomination in walking or bussing distance, interspersed with occasional severe bouts of extreme doubt that went on and off for years. Theologically, I've been all over the Christian and secular map. But basically, I came to believe more or less what you said you'd been taught -- this life isn't fair, Jesus didn't come to make this life better, etc. I was never taught that I might die for my beliefs, although I knew of martrys in other countries who certainly were dying for theirs. I was taught that if you persevere to the end, despite your questions, you'd have eternal life with God, etc etc. My basic trouble is, I think I was born with a curious nature. And when I have a question, I'm unfortunately generally unable to let it go until I've pursued it, asked it, discussed it, etc. It's just how I am. :) Some people can have questions and not be swayed by them. Fair enough.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
Quote from: Amicale
For some people here on this board, they may not believe in God because they see no need for a God, wouldn't want to know a God, wouldn't be interested in following a God even if that God were actually kind and loving. Then for others of us who USED to believe.... we (generally speaking) probably no longer do believe because we've seen something very, very broken in the system and as much as we'd like to, going back just isn't something we could probably do. Instead, for myself, I've forged ahead the best I know how. I've learned morality for its own sake, not for God's. I've learned a lot about the world around me. I'm still learning, and I've come to deeply appreciate life as I see it, not as I think and wish it ought to be. And that's as honest as I can be.

I appreciate the honesty.  I will say that you lost faith in God for unanswered questions to move to another position of different unanswered questions.  You've put faith in yourself to forge ahead as best you know, yet without all the answers.  you trust Man will come to the answers, but don't know when.  You've learned the morality of this life which you must agree, changes from society to society and will continue to change from generation to generation.  What you've learned today may be irrelevant tomorrow.  You've learned a lot about the world around you.  To what end?  Is it not widely accepted that we, man, will probably be the undoing of this earth? That what took the universe billions of years to build, Man may be able to kill off in a few hundred years?  That you're still learning...you still have questions and many unanswered.  You appreciate this life.  You deny God exists and appreciate THIS life?  This life is short and unfair and you accept this.  You've traded one belief for another "better" belief, and yet are in the same position as before...worse to some degree as beyond this, there is no KNOWN hope, but in yet unanswered questions.  A trade has been made.  One set of unanswered questions for another set of unanswered questions.  That's as honest as I can be.

(I hope my words are not in an unkind tone)     

Well, there are a lot of questions here. But basically, yes, I appreciate this life, despite it being short and unfair. Why? Because if I see no evidence for God's existence, then technically, there's nothing supernatural out there responsible for its creation, or for the state it's in now. There's nothing to be angry at. Nobody to shake a fist at, and say 'why the heck are you allowing this?' other than myself and my fellow humans. But taking the supernatural out of the equation leaves me and everyone else here responsible for making this world a better place. Not God. And there's no option for deferring happiness to an afterlife. We either help people out here, and make life a little better now, or it'll never happen. I admit that I HATE that there's no much injustice in this world. There's a lot that's broken.

But that being said, there IS hope, and its this -- we have each other. For every rotten person out there who's willing to destroy, there's a good person out there willing to heal and love. For every violent person, there's a peaceful one. There's the hope that we can do everything we personally can to make this world better. There's the hope that we can work together to make it happen. I believe there are good people everywhere. Morality changes from society to society, but it changes as understanding and education grow. What I'm trying to say (sorry, I am tired and sick) is that I have not written this earth off as a complete waste. When humans suffer, others step up to help them. When there's hunger, we offer food. When there's disaster, we offer relief. When something wrong happens, a lot of us do our best to put an end to it. So, that's the hope I have. That we humans aren't all bad, and that most of us are good, that most of us love and care and give a damn. :)

As I've mentioned on HAF at least once before, I do appreciate your position and that of most Atheism.  I believe there is reason to question and enough reason to disbelieve.  My wish is that it would be the above Atheism that is promoted and not that of the typical post in the image thread(s).  Likewise I'm sure there is a better side of Christianity that you might prefer to the hypocrite and finger-pointing [insert other bad qualities] Christianity that does run rampant. 

Amicale

  • Nerdy cat lady
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5484
  • Gender: Female
  • Nom nom nom
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2012, 04:38:24 PM »

As I've mentioned on HAF at least once before, I do appreciate your position and that of most Atheism.  I believe there is reason to question and enough reason to disbelieve.  My wish is that it would be the above Atheism that is promoted and not that of the typical post in the image thread(s).  Likewise I'm sure there is a better side of Christianity that you might prefer to the hypocrite and finger-pointing [insert other bad qualities] Christianity that does run rampant. 

:) Absolutely. I'm friends with more than a few Christians who are good, kind people. The sort who don't bash you with their beliefs, but either discuss them calmly, or simply just live life as your friend.

One woman I know who has always been like an aunt to me my entire life although we're not related is absolutely Christian to the hilt -- church, bible studies, praise&worship music, Christian movies, you name it -- but the way she shows her faith isn't a hypocritical, or finger-pointing way. She'd give anyone the shirt off her back. She does her very best to practice what she preaches. If anyone needs something, even at 3 am, she's there. She'll laugh with you, or cry with you. When I think of the word 'kindness', I often think of her. I have more respect, love and affection for her than I'd ever have for the most popular evangelists in the world today, simply because I know her and trust her, and because she's shown me time and again that when she says "I love you", she means it. No threats of hell. No guilt trips for not believing as she does. Just love, no strings attached. And I love her right back.

I DEFINITELY prefer that kind of Christianity -- the honest seeker, who does their best to show the love they believe they're supposed to show. I'd say she and people like her draw in a LOT more people than the stereotypical, believe-or-burn hard-nosers would. :)

For the record AD, your brand of Christianity is definitely appreciated. Whenever I've interacted with you, it's been a calm, interesting, thoughtful conversation. And I wish more Christians would engage others the way you do.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

AnimatedDirt

  • Banned
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3211
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2012, 05:40:59 PM »
For the record AD, your brand of Christianity is definitely appreciated. Whenever I've interacted with you, it's been a calm, interesting, thoughtful conversation. And I wish more Christians would engage others the way you do.

Thanks.  The record does, however, show a few blemished instances...to my shame.  :)

Amicale

  • Nerdy cat lady
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5484
  • Gender: Female
  • Nom nom nom
Re: Your conversion to atheism
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2012, 06:28:27 PM »
For the record AD, your brand of Christianity is definitely appreciated. Whenever I've interacted with you, it's been a calm, interesting, thoughtful conversation. And I wish more Christians would engage others the way you do.

Thanks.  The record does, however, show a few blemished instances...to my shame.  :)

Eh, we're all human.  :) Except perhaps Asmo. ;)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan