The Derail Thread

[arian (Banned)]

Are you sure that the scientific and archaeological dating methods have not been messed with and do not contain lots of deliberate lies and fabrications that have been made to them over time?

It's not easy, getting away with false science as it tends not to survive peer reviews. Remember that "vaccines cause autism" crap? It got slaughtered... And yet, from what I hear, some hillbillies over in 'States still believe it to be so (There are probably ignorant fools in other places too, but of those, I am not aware)

Inbreeding must produce antibodies to infections? ... who knows?
But just think about it, back in WWII wouldn't of it been much easyer to exterminate all the Jews by making a vaccine mandatory in all Europe, where the Jews would be given vaccine A (deadly reaction after some time), and for the Germans vaccine B (NS, and when it becomes obvious, fake the simptoms in a few Germans)?

I would also ask, which vaccines were presented for the tests?

and please, make me some of that paint that can last for millions of years. Now that would be a find!

Anything inorganic and chemically stable in a given environment would do nicely.

The paint is not the problem - erosion due to wind and water is. Therefor, most paintings made on eroded stone are very hard to see. The patterns in the stone may be recolored for ease of public viewing..

So even if someone from the general public did come with a small science-kit, it would be too late for him to check for authenticity, right? I mean the general public is usually not allowed even near such valuable find.

[history_geek]

Are you sure that the scientific and archaeological dating methods have not been messed with and do not contain lots of deliberate lies and fabrications that have been made to them over time?

It's not easy, getting away with false science as it tends not to survive peer reviews. Remember that "vaccines cause autism" crap? It got slaughtered... And yet, from what I hear, some hillbillies over in 'States still believe it to be so (There are probably ignorant fools in other places too, but of those, I am not aware)

Inbreeding must produce antibodies to infections? ... who knows?
But just think about it, back in WWII wouldn't of it been much easyer to exterminate all the Jews by making a vaccine mandatory in all Europe, where the Jews would be given vaccine A (deadly reaction after some time), and for the Germans vaccine B (NS, and when it becomes obvious, fake the simptoms in a few Germans)?

.... Desperate use of Godwin's Law?

and please, make me some of that paint that can last for millions of years. Now that would be a find!

Anything inorganic and chemically stable in a given environment would do nicely.

The paint is not the problem - erosion due to wind and water is. Therefor, most paintings made on eroded stone are very hard to see. The patterns in the stone may be recolored for ease of public viewing..

So even if someone from the general public did come with a small science-kit, it would be too late for him to check for authenticity, right? I mean the general public is usually not allowed even near such valuable find.

Wait, they sell kits that you can actually use for accurately date stuff, without a lab and proper equipment for radiometric dating of any kind?? Where can I get one?

I don't have any statistics to back me up, but I would argue that more often then not, it is members of the "general public" that end up finding these cave paintings, but you are correct that most aren't allowed near any valuable findings until they have been properly studied, documented, and declared a state protected tourist attraction.

[arian (Banned)]

Are you sure that the scientific and archaeological dating methods have not been messed with and do not contain lots of deliberate lies and fabrications that have been made to them over time?

It's not easy, getting away with false science as it tends not to survive peer reviews. Remember that "vaccines cause autism" crap? It got slaughtered... And yet, from what I hear, some hillbillies over in 'States still believe it to be so (There are probably ignorant fools in other places too, but of those, I am not aware)

Inbreeding must produce antibodies to infections? ... who knows?
But just think about it, back in WWII wouldn't of it been much easyer to exterminate all the Jews by making a vaccine mandatory in all Europe, where the Jews would be given vaccine A (deadly reaction after some time), and for the Germans vaccine B (NS, and when it becomes obvious, fake the simptoms in a few Germans)?

.... Desperate use of Godwin's Law?

and please, make me some of that paint that can last for millions of years. Now that would be a find!

Anything inorganic and chemically stable in a given environment would do nicely.

The paint is not the problem - erosion due to wind and water is. Therefor, most paintings made on eroded stone are very hard to see. The patterns in the stone may be recolored for ease of public viewing..

So even if someone from the general public did come with a small science-kit, it would be too late for him to check for authenticity, right? I mean the general public is usually not allowed even near such valuable find.

Wait, they sell kits that you can actually use for accurately date stuff, without a lab and proper equipment for radiometric dating of any kind?? Where can I get one?

You can't and don't even try, unless you want to be followed and photographed wherever you go.
Even the subject is carefully monitored on 'freedom of speech' Debate Forums and immediately removed, dumped and labeled as a crazy troll posts.

I don't have any statistics to back me up, but I would argue that more often then not, it is members of the "general public" that end up finding these cave paintings

I know, my brothers back in th Old Country used to plant stuff in these caves, and did some painting of their own, all for a little money from archeologists came around eager for a find.

Take care my friend.

[xSilverPhinx]

We have an ancient paint conspiracy now, joy.
Who did the millions of year old paintings anyway? I hadn't heard of those up to now.

Haven't you heard? The devil planted all those painting there as well, the damn creature didn't have anything better to do millions (pre Homo sapiens era) of years ago.

Get with the times




Btw...do I have an "ignore me" written somewhere somehow?  



These paintings are located under ground, safe from rain and wind.

[The Magic Pudding]

Btw...do I have an "ignore me" written somewhere somehow?  

Who said that?

How come someone called Arian is suggesting more efficient methods for killing Jews?

You can't and don't even try, unless you want to be followed and photographed wherever you go.
Even the subject is carefully monitored on 'freedom of speech' Debate Forums and immediately removed, dumped and labeled as a crazy troll posts.

Hmm, OK...

[Asmodean]

Inbreeding must produce antibodies to infections? ... who knows?

Inbreeding can produce mutations. Mutations can make one resistant to some diseases, but also susceptible to others.

But just think about it, back in WWII wouldn't of it been much easyer to exterminate all the Jews by making a vaccine mandatory in all Europe, where the Jews would be given vaccine A (deadly reaction after some time), and for the Germans vaccine B (NS, and when it becomes obvious, fake the simptoms in a few Germans)?

Hmm... ...

...No. Actually, it would not be easier at all.

I would also ask, which vaccines were presented for the tests?

MMR.

So even if someone from the general public did come with a small science-kit, it would be too late for him to check for authenticity, right? I mean the general public is usually not allowed even near such valuable find.

Small science kit would not help you overmuch without the access to a big lab.

General public are not allowed near such finds until the structural integrity has been checked and deemed safe and, more importantly, as long as contaminating the scene can make the scientists' job more difficult when it comes to cataloguing and verifying.

After all, general public are a bunch of morons. That is why we have specialists. For instance, when it comes to lorrying, I am very much general public. Giving me a lorry full of fragile valuables to drive would be idiotic, as even if it didn't end up wrapped around a tree under my care, the load would probably suffer.

[xSilverPhinx]

Btw...do I have an "ignore me" written somewhere somehow? 

Who said that?

No one. Some trolls just don't even acknowledge my replies to them. T'was the same when I gave Egor a link to the Dunning Kruger effect (the unskilled are too unskilled to know that they're unskilled) which suited his predicament so perfectly . I was eager to see what he had to say about it because it was a certain feeling of amusement waiting to happen... *sigh* And now he's gone. *sigh* Spewing his bullshit on another corner of cyberspace.

How come someone called Arian is suggesting more efficient methods for killing Jews?

I have no idea, but I'd reckon this one also believes that super viruses such as HIV were purposefully engineered to destroy certain populations.

[Asmodean]

I have no idea, but I'd reckon this one also believes that super viruses such as HIV were purposefully engineered to destroy certain populations.

Yes. Them monkeys, they had enough of people sticking things into them, and so they decided to do some righteous vengeance.

[xSilverPhinx]

I have no idea, but I'd reckon this one also believes that super viruses such as HIV were purposefully engineered to destroy certain populations.

Yes. Them monkeys, they had enough of people sticking things into them, and so they decided to do some righteous vengeance.

I would like some evidence that it was the monkeys please, because I just know in my heart that it was engineered by the loving creator!

[Too Few Lions]

Are you sure that the scientific and archaeological dating methods have not been messed with and do not contain lots of deliberate lies and fabrications that have been made to them over time?

Yes I am. Unlike you, I'm a trained archaeologist so I know how methodical a discipline it is, and how accurate scientific dating methods are. That's not to say it's a perfect discipline, but it has given us a far more accurate understanding of the past than believing the myths in the Bible ever did. The great strength of any scientific discipline is that theories are open to change as new evidence emerges and new more accurate techniques are developed.

Those 'cave paintings' have an awful lot of modern-man made stories behind them too, ... and please, make me some of that paint that can last for millions of years. Now that would be a find!

I think you're showing your ignorance here, the oldest cave paintings known are around 32,000 years old, not millions of years old. They've been dated by radiocarbon dating, which can't really be fabricated, unless you're suggesting archaeologists deliberately alter the ratio of carbon-14 in the smples before testing it? 

The earliest cave paintings are also from pre-literate societies, so any interpretations are going to be guesswork as we have no writing from the artists to tell us what the paintings originally symbolised. But that doesn't prevent us from being able to scientifically date them and know roughly when they're from.

[arian (Banned)]

Are you sure that the scientific and archaeological dating methods have not been messed with and do not contain lots of deliberate lies and fabrications that have been made to them over time?

Yes I am. Unlike you, I'm a trained archaeologist so I know how methodical a discipline it is, and how accurate scientific dating methods are. That's not to say it's a perfect discipline, but it has given us a far more accurate understanding of the past than believing the myths in the Bible ever did. The great strength of any scientific discipline is that theories are open to change as new evidence emerges and new more accurate techniques are developed.

The Mormons, Muslims and Jehovahs Witnesses are deciplined too, once they are taught how to think, they believe that everything they say is correct. I can show them a verse from the Bible, and they act like they never even read that before, as if it wasn't in there. It is amazing how indoctrination works, on all levels. The army is another good example, just ask any Drill Sargent.

Those 'cave paintings' have an awful lot of modern-man made stories behind them too, ... and please, make me some of that paint that can last for millions of years. Now that would be a find!

I think you're showing your ignorance here, the oldest cave paintings known are around 32,000 years old, not millions of years old. They've been dated by radiocarbon dating, which can't really be fabricated, unless you're suggesting archaeologists deliberately alter the ratio of carbon-14 in the smples before testing it? 

Are you saying that when the radiocarbon dating was invented the years just popped up on a screen after testing something?

Can a clock tell time?

The earliest cave paintings are also from pre-literate societies, so any interpretations are going to be guesswork as we have no writing from the artists to tell us what the paintings originally symbolised. But that doesn't prevent us from being able to scientifically date them and know roughly when they're from.

5,000, 32,000 or millions of years, it is just numbers with great stories behind them. It is them stories that I like to analize, without the influence of indoctrination.
 
Thank you, but you must admit there is a lot of modern-made stories behind them paintings, no?

[Asmodean]

Are you saying that when the radiocarbon dating was invented the years just popped up on a screen after testing something?

Yes, exactly like that. It's going to the member quotes, that is.

[BooksCatsEtc]

Are you saying that when the radiocarbon dating was invented the years just popped up on a screen after testing something?

Yes, exactly like that. It's going to the member quotes, that is.

These threads are very hard on a non-science type like me.  Here I was thinking all those years that that's exactly what it had been invented to do after analyzing the data.

[Asmodean]

These threads are very hard on a non-science type like me.  Here I was thinking all those years that that's exactly what it had been invented to do after analyzing the data.

Well, its output has to be converted into units of time, whatever you want those to be, and that process can be automated, but yes, if you want to generalize it in a way someone completely uninterested (Or five year old) might do, then that is pretty much the way to do it.

You test the thing and then... Woohoo! Numbers on the screen!

[namithaishot]

Family is overrated, really.

do you as want, we don't have to answer for others for our beliefs.