Author Topic: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming  (Read 3155 times)

Whitney

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2012, 02:33:04 PM »
if the issue is pollutants, why does the establishment not say so?

Well...they do...in addition to considering CO2 a pollutant.  I don't think global warming/climate change is a conspiracy.  The only thing in question is to what extent humans are responsible.  Considering that the oceans are already starting to warm and that is what is going to cause vast shifts in climate change then it's better to try to change our ways not being 100% on how much human offgassing has contributed rather than just shrug our shoulders.  Not to mention that pretty much everything we do that releases CO2 also releases some other kind of more obvious pollutant; so the actions needed are the same anyway.

Quote
Also, if you believe the government is responsible for chem-trails, they are releasing even more pollutants in order to combat the climate.

I don't buy into that.  If they were going to try to adjust the ozone with additives they'd just do it openly; the majority of the world's citizens would be in favor if it was backed by science. Without me having to read through a dozen conspiracy theory sites, where is the proof that spraying metals up there would actually repair the ozone anyway? I remember having read many articles over they years about how scientists were trying to figure out what they could spray to fix it.

Traveler

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2012, 03:12:33 PM »
I'm actually more concerned about the pollutants affecting water supply, crops, fish etc more than what it may potentially be doing to climate and also the state of our energy supply sources...but what might slow climate change is the same things we would need to be doing to reduce pollution and find alternative energy sources.  In short, I'm saying I don't really think it's matters if pro climate change advocates are wrong because these steps should be considered important anyway.

I was just this morning thinking about how we're one of the few species who seem to crap all over their nests. Why is that? We should be doing everything in our power to stop doing it. We've been polluting the planet at an alarming rate all my life. It's simply common sense that crapping in our nests (polluting our planet) is a bad idea, and evidence certainly backs that up. But humans seem to be very short sighted when it comes to any possible inconvenience. During the gas crisis in the 70s we thought we were running out of oil, so everyone wanted cars with better gas mileage, people started putting solar energy into their home designs, the government of the US had tax incentives for solar, and much more. And then we got complacent and everything went backwards. My 1984 Honda Civic SI got 42 mpg on the highway, and that was the sport version. The economy version did even better. How many cars today can match that? I think its all related. Short-sighted, profit-driven, head-in-the-sand thinking. Or not-thinking I should say. I don't understand why we have to prove whether climate change is human-induced or how much of it is. We should be doing the right thing in the first place. We should stop being the most arrogant species on the planet and stop crapping in our nests. We have only one planet. If we screw it up we're doomed and the cockroaches and crocodiles will get their chance.
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NatsuTerran

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2012, 05:28:22 PM »
But humans seem to be very short sighted when it comes to any possible inconvenience.

This. This is the core principle of right wing and centrist politics. People tend to only look at concrete changes in their own personal lives, and not what is better for the species on an objective level. "Hmm, do I want some tax money back or do I want to keep the myriad of public utilities and services that I don't have the brain power and critical thinking skills to truly evaluate because I am so short-sighted... Well duh, I need a new wide-screen TV."

There is a balancing act in all forms of politics. On one hand you have infringement on subjective freedoms of individuals, and on the other you have objective well-being for the group. Anyone who values the first is pretty messed up in the head in my opinion. What's good for the group is good for the individual, what's bad for the group is bad for the individual. What's good for the individual is neutral to the group, what's bad for the individual is also neutral to the group. It boggles my mind that people don't understand this concept. I've always put myself in everyone's shoes except my own anytime I try to form opinions. I believe that a person's opinion on something is meaningless if they are personally invested in the results of certain policies. For example, discussing the death penalty with a family that had someone murdered. Or discussing evolution with a YEC. When people are personally involved in things you cannot take their opinion with more than a grain of salt. The same applies to politics. People need to learn to step outside of the subjective human experience entirely.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 05:31:54 PM by NatsuTerran »

ThinkAnarchy

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2012, 06:12:17 PM »
Also, if you believe the government is responsible for chem-trails, they are releasing even more pollutants in order to combat the climate.

I don't buy into that.  If they were going to try to adjust the ozone with additives they'd just do it openly; the majority of the world's citizens would be in favor if it was backed by science. Without me having to read through a dozen conspiracy theory sites, where is the proof that spraying metals up there would actually repair the ozone anyway? I remember having read many articles over they years about how scientists were trying to figure out what they could spray to fix it.

I don't think it's about repairing the ozone, I think the theory is that the microscopic aluminum along with other things will reflect some of the light lowering temperatures slightly. I'm not sure of the exact theory behind it, but I have seen trails from planes around where I live that don't dissipate for hours on end.

A new article about temperatures falling.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html
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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2012, 06:30:01 PM »
A new article about temperatures falling.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html

Just a small bit of advice, don't post articles from the Daily Mail to back up debates they are notorious for misunderstanding and misreading science and basically everything else that isn't about celebrity's.

Regardless of global warming I think it is important for green energy, recycling, and the ilk to keep progressing as they are not just a positive for our environment but highly important for the development of humanity and other species of animals.
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ThinkAnarchy

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2012, 06:42:16 PM »
A new article about temperatures falling.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html

Just a small bit of advice, don't post articles from the Daily Mail to back up debates they are notorious for misunderstanding and misreading science and basically everything else that isn't about celebrity's.

Regardless of global warming I think it is important for green energy, recycling, and the ilk to keep progressing as they are not just a positive for our environment but highly important for the development of humanity and other species of animals.

That is basically any newspaper. I honestly don't think they are any less credible than the NYTimes, Washington Post, etc. They all lie, misrepresent, or inaccurately report at some points.

I'm all for clean energy options. But let the businesses figure it out themselves and stop giving them subsidies.
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

Whitney

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2012, 06:49:01 PM »
I'm all for clean energy options. But let the businesses figure it out themselves and stop giving them subsidies.

You really think they'd do anything about how much they offgas and where they dump their waste if government didn't regulate?  The subsidies are there to encourage cleaning up their acts when it otherwise wouldn't be a profitable choice....but I would be fine with getting rid of those and just making them be cleaner if an economic study showed it was actually cheaper for consumers than the tax money going in.

ThinkAnarchy

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2012, 07:01:18 PM »
I'm all for clean energy options. But let the businesses figure it out themselves and stop giving them subsidies.

You really think they'd do anything about how much they offgas and where they dump their waste if government didn't regulate?  The subsidies are there to encourage cleaning up their acts when it otherwise wouldn't be a profitable choice....but I would be fine with getting rid of those and just making them be cleaner if an economic study showed it was actually cheaper for consumers than the tax money going in.
Yes, the threat of civil litigation would likely be enough to prevent the dumping of waste where ever they like. As for the gas, I would have to think about it longer.

The subsidies I'm referring to are going to green energy companies in particular. Most of them don't have a profitable business model and can't produce solar panels (or another product) cheap enough to make a profit on their own, so the government gives them money to keep them afloat. If a company can't turn a profit they shouldn't be in business.

Minor subsidies to promote safer disposal of chemicals, exhaust, etc don't bother me nearly as much as those that are keeping failing companies from going bankrupt simply because they are creating a product the government prefers.
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

Tank

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2012, 07:06:21 PM »
A new article about temperatures falling.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html

Just a small bit of advice, don't post articles from the Daily Mail to back up debates they are notorious for misunderstanding and misreading science and basically everything else that isn't about celebrity's.

Regardless of global warming I think it is important for green energy, recycling, and the ilk to keep progressing as they are not just a positive for our environment but highly important for the development of humanity and other species of animals.

That is basically any newspaper. I honestly don't think they are any less credible than the NYTimes, Washington Post, etc. They all lie, misrepresent, or inaccurately report at some points.

I'm all for clean energy options. But let the businesses figure it out themselves and stop giving them subsidies.
WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!
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ThinkAnarchy

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2012, 07:09:30 PM »
Fair enough though, I will wait and see if any other sites report on it. So far all I have seen are links to the DM link discussing it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 07:12:45 PM by ThinkAnarchy »
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

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Tank

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2012, 07:18:40 PM »
Fair enough though, I will wait and see if any other sites report on it. So far all I have seen are links to the DM link discussing it.

Well there must be something at the root of the story but the DM is very much like Fox News and about as credible. I think we just need to find the original reseach.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

ThinkAnarchy

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2012, 07:22:30 PM »
Fair enough though, I will wait and see if any other sites report on it. So far all I have seen are links to the DM link discussing it.

Well there must be something at the root of the story but the DM is very much like Fox News and about as credible. I think we just need to find the original reseach.

I was looking for it, but the daily mail didn't link to it and everything else talking about it is simply linking to the daily mail. I'm going to look into it a little more though.
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

ThinkAnarchy

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2012, 07:24:06 PM »
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

Tank

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If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
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ThinkAnarchy

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Re: 16 concered scientists: No Need to Panic about Global Warming
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2012, 07:29:56 PM »
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.