Author Topic: Tired of being negative  (Read 5463 times)

Sweetdeath

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2012, 07:57:54 PM »
Maybe some atheists (not al) lack tolerance for religious people because our civil rights are constantly stomped on. Btw, U.S Flag analogy is meaningles to me. This country  is still runned by overly religious politicans, and only five states  are okay wirh gay marriage. That's repulsive. Even so, churches love to protest at gay military funerals and weddings.. Wow, goooo jesus followers! e__e
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Ali

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2012, 08:13:31 PM »
No, I don't mean this at all.  I refer you to the flag analogy.  I don't wish for anyone to bite their tongue because another might be offended.  My point is simply that the reason there is a stereotype of angry Atheist (I think was the original question) is that the typical Atheist, as evidenced IMHO by our Image thread here at HAF, is that the Atheist has NO respect for another persons beliefs.

I don't think that you can point to atheist humor on an atheist website as definitive proof that atheists have "NO" (with a capital "N" "O") respect for another person's beliefs.

I get that we are a pretty irreverent bunch.  But trust me that I will laugh at myself when I am being silly, or another atheist when s/he is being silly as well.  I just don't have the kind of sense of humor that holds very many things "too sacred" to be played with.

But that doesn't mean that I don't respect anyone or anything.  I respect your right to believe what you believe, even though I disagree with it.  That doesn't mean that I don't find you silly.  But it's okay, because I'm silly too.

I have to think that when you venture into the territory of people who you KNOW disagree with you on something that you hold important (whatever that is) then you have to do so at your own risk.  If I went to a Christian forum, I would be remiss in getting all up in arms if there was a thread about how atheists are going to hell.  If I, as a parent, went to a website for people who are anti-kids, I would be remiss in getting up in arms about reading posts that make fun of parents.

I'm not saying that you or any other religious person shouldn't post here (heck, tha would be pretty presumptious of me, since I've been here for like a minute) I just think that it's important that you recognize that it's pretty much a given that some people on an atheist forum may indulge in a little bit of atheist humor, but that is different from us coming to "your house" and disrespecting you.

AnimatedDirt

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2012, 08:32:21 PM »
I'm not saying that you or any other religious person shouldn't post here (heck, tha would be pretty presumptious of me, since I've been here for like a minute) I just think that it's important that you recognize that it's pretty much a given that some people on an atheist forum may indulge in a little bit of atheist humor, but that is different from us coming to "your house" and disrespecting you.

I get it.  I understand what you're saying.  I'm on foreign ground here at HAF.  I'm not attempting to dictate whether there should or shouldn't be an Image thread of the likes here.  What I'm saying is simply to answer the question of why negativity towards Atheists, I say it's reasonably well documented point what the typical Atheist feels about Christianity, the Christian and the beliefs therein.  It's not much of a stretch, IMHO, to say that's at least one reason for the negativity.

Therefore it is my opinion that one answer to why there is negativitiy towards Atheism is the negativity Atheism, or better lack of respect, Atheism does not really give the believer.  Sure, everyone says, "We respect your right to your beliefs...(cough, chuckle, chuckle, 'what an idiot', cough)"  That's my point.  

Ali

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2012, 08:36:11 PM »
Therefore it is my opinion that one answer to why there is negativitiy towards Atheism is the negativity Atheism, or better lack of respect, Atheism does not really give the believer.  Sure, everyone says, "We respect your right to your beliefs...(cough, chuckle, chuckle, 'what an idiot', cough) "  That's my point.  

But what else are you looking for?  Of course we *disagree* with your beliefs - if we agreed with them we would be Christians.  

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2012, 09:00:34 PM »
But what else are you looking for?  Of course we *disagree* with your beliefs - if we agreed with them we would be Christians.  

"Is there nothing sacred?"  To me it's like this;  Say I'm an avid hunter and you're one against hunting.  Assuming you "feel" for animals and their suffering, would you find anything "wrong" with me posting pictures of me and or others burning animals, clubbing them to death and peeling their pelts off to sell and wear as status symbols, making light of your irrational stance?  What possible wrong is there in one evolved species simply for fun torturing another just for laughs...because it's funny?  Define "cruel", "right", "wrong"...in a world that is a result of a cosmic burp?  My belief, in this scenario, is that me being superior to whatever I kill, torture, skin, eat...is my perogative being the superior species.  What reasons would you have to hold "negative" feelings for the word, "hunter".

Davin

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2012, 09:08:00 PM »
But what else are you looking for?  Of course we *disagree* with your beliefs - if we agreed with them we would be Christians.  

"Is there nothing sacred?"  To me it's like this;  Say I'm an avid hunter and you're one against hunting.  Assuming you "feel" for animals and their suffering, would you find anything "wrong" with me posting pictures of me and or others burning animals, clubbing them to death and peeling their pelts off to sell and wear as status symbols, making light of your irrational stance?  What possible wrong is there in one evolved species simply for fun torturing another just for laughs...because it's funny?  Define "cruel", "right", "wrong"...in a world that is a result of a cosmic burp?  My belief, in this scenario, is that me being superior to whatever I kill, torture, skin, eat...is my perogative being the superior species.  What reasons would you have to hold "negative" feelings for the word, "hunter".
Who is torturing or killing Christians when they make jokes about them? If someone was clubbing Christians over the head, I'd have a problem with that... someone making fun of me because I don't like to kill things, I don't care unless it's funny.

You keep making these comparisons, I just don't see the similarities... are you really saying that making fun of a religious belief is tantamount killing things?

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2012, 09:20:15 PM »
But what else are you looking for?  Of course we *disagree* with your beliefs - if we agreed with them we would be Christians.  

"Is there nothing sacred?"  To me it's like this;  Say I'm an avid hunter and you're one against hunting.  Assuming you "feel" for animals and their suffering, would you find anything "wrong" with me posting pictures of me and or others burning animals, clubbing them to death and peeling their pelts off to sell and wear as status symbols, making light of your irrational stance?  What possible wrong is there in one evolved species simply for fun torturing another just for laughs...because it's funny?  Define "cruel", "right", "wrong"...in a world that is a result of a cosmic burp?  My belief, in this scenario, is that me being superior to whatever I kill, torture, skin, eat...is my perogative being the superior species.  What reasons would you have to hold "negative" feelings for the word, "hunter".

I don't mean to sound harsh, but your religious beliefs are not sacred to me.  I truly do respect your right to have them, and if there were some sort of vote "Should religious people be allowed to practice their religion?" I would stand with you in voting yes, of course you should.  But the fact that you hold them sacred will do little more than make me hold my tongue in mixed company.  They’re not sacred to me, because I don’t believe in them.  Just as, I’m sure, there are things that I hold sacred that you do not.  I am passionate about the humane treatment of animals, but if I went to some BBQ Meat Eater forum, I wouldn’t expect them to refrain from joking about vegetarians, because I understand that if they held my beliefs, they would be vegetarians, and the fact that they aren’t means that my beliefs are not automatically sacred to them. 

Sweetdeath

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2012, 09:40:04 PM »
AD ;_;... No one is personally attacking you. Do you need a hug or something?
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AnimatedDirt

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2012, 09:41:25 PM »
You keep making these comparisons, I just don't see the similarities... are you really saying that making fun of a religious belief is tantamount killing things?

No Davin.  That's not what I'm saying at all.  I've tried answering this for you.  I think at least Ali understands a bit better so it would seem the problem is not with me.  Analogies are not meant to fit perfectly, nor are they meant to explain exactly, but rather to make a connection in thinking.  I tried with the flag thinking, ok...maybe he'll see that there are some people that hold the flag as a symbol of something people have died for and so it is sacred and MEANS something while simply a piece of cloth...then I tried the sanctity of life with cruelty to animals thing thinking that you might see that when one person belittles something that to another is of sacred value (either in a religious sense or in a humanitarian sense) it is not without reason to have negative feelings towards the word 'Atheist'.  

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2012, 09:53:28 PM »
I don't mean to sound harsh, but your religious beliefs are not sacred to me.  I truly do respect your right to have them, and if there were some sort of vote "Should religious people be allowed to practice their religion?" I would stand with you in voting yes, of course you should.  But the fact that you hold them sacred will do little more than make me hold my tongue in mixed company.  They’re not sacred to me, because I don’t believe in them.  Just as, I’m sure, there are things that I hold sacred that you do not.  I am passionate about the humane treatment of animals, but if I went to some BBQ Meat Eater forum, I wouldn’t expect them to refrain from joking about vegetarians, because I understand that if they held my beliefs, they would be vegetarians, and the fact that they aren’t means that my beliefs are not automatically sacred to them.

I see in "your" words that you respect my right to believe.  However it is "your" actions that speak slightly louder and therefore IMHO is reason to have negative thoughts on the word "atheist".

Is it really more respectful of my beliefs that "you" don't belittle them in front of me in person, but rather, with anonymity, feel free to do that which you wouldn't otherwise do in public (in person)?  I know you don't hold it sacred, but it is sacred to another human being.  Why do we, inclusive of me, feel the need to do this?  I guess it's a philosophical question really.

AD ;_;... No one is personally attacking you. Do you need a hug or something?

I'm not feeling personally attacked but I like hugs.

Davin

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2012, 09:58:20 PM »
You keep making these comparisons, I just don't see the similarities... are you really saying that making fun of a religious belief is tantamount killing things?

No Davin.  That's not what I'm saying at all.  I've tried answering this for you.  I think at least Ali understands a bit better so it would seem the problem is not with me.  Analogies are not meant to fit perfectly, nor are they meant to explain exactly, but rather to make a connection in thinking.  I tried with the flag thinking, ok...maybe he'll see that there are some people that hold the flag as a symbol of something people have died for and so it is sacred and MEANS something while simply a piece of cloth...then I tried the sanctity of life with cruelty to animals thing thinking that you might see that when one person belittles something that to another is of sacred value (either in a religious sense or in a humanitarian sense) it is not without reason to have negative feelings towards the word 'Atheist'.
Imagine someone making fun of me because I accept the theory of gravity, nothing for me to get upset over. Now imagine me comparing being made fun of for accepting the theory of gravity to someone coming over and kicking my puppy. Your comparisons make it sound like theists are severly overreacting, like an eye for a tooth.

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2012, 10:00:10 PM »
I was once told that one sign of maturity was that ability to laugh at oneself and really get the joke. Nothing is sacred where humour is concerned.
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superfes

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2012, 10:01:03 PM »
You keep making these comparisons, I just don't see the similarities... are you really saying that making fun of a religious belief is tantamount killing things?

No Davin.  That's not what I'm saying at all.  I've tried answering this for you.  I think at least Ali understands a bit better so it would seem the problem is not with me.  Analogies are not meant to fit perfectly, nor are they meant to explain exactly, but rather to make a connection in thinking.  I tried with the flag thinking, ok...maybe he'll see that there are some people that hold the flag as a symbol of something people have died for and so it is sacred and MEANS something while simply a piece of cloth...then I tried the sanctity of life with cruelty to animals thing thinking that you might see that when one person belittles something that to another is of sacred value (either in a religious sense or in a humanitarian sense) it is not without reason to have negative feelings towards the word 'Atheist'.  

AD, I think Davin is correct on this one, your analogies are somewhat strange and don't apply to people's posts on HAF, the thing is you have come over to our house, looked at the posters on our wall and told us to quit burning your pictures...

As far as the flag is concerned I was raised with respect for the flag myself, but all in all it's the personal meaning or what the representation of it means to us personally that is sacred, not the base materials themselves, and again, nobody is burning your flag to the ground (Perhaps this was a false analogy based on the false prose that this country was founded on religious principles, if that was your attempt, this is why that analogy makes little to no sense to people).

I think that your animal analogy was probably the closest you've gotten to an actual analogy, but it still is based on the premise that we have come to your hunting camp and started protesting your hobby, when in fact we're just hanging out on our back patio having a few beers and making fun of hunters.
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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2012, 10:02:59 PM »
Why did the atheist cross the road?

He thought there might be a sidewalk on the other side, but he wouldn’t believe it until he tested his hypothesis.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
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Sweetdeath

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Re: Tired of being negative
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2012, 10:16:08 PM »
Yay!! :D *hugs*
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

“I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn’t mend our wounds.