Author Topic: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"  (Read 4950 times)

Stevil

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Re: Atheist Songs
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 08:43:37 PM »
My question is:  If Atheism is correct, what is the point of "Atheist Song"?  Where is the intelligence in singing about the disbelief in the non-existent?
People write songs, often with vocal melodies.
They hence have a need to put words into the songs.
Sometimes they express themselves, e.g their feelings, their own beliefs or disbeliefs.

Singing about a disbelief is a very valid topic, especially when there is a segment of society that wants to recruit people into their beliefs and wants laws reflecting their beliefs. We need to oppose this and we need to show people that there are people out there that lack these beliefs and that it is a valid path to go down.

Davin

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2011, 08:58:33 PM »
You seem to be implying that we should just take the unwanted pressures of religious people silently.

No!  Not at all.  I support the Atheist to sing about whatever they want to sing about.  My question is why do the most part of "Atheist Songs" have the stupid notion of God in them?  Why not sing about what makes an Atheist an Atheist.  Why sing about fairytales?  Why keep harping on the same issue?
Mainly because theists keep harping on us about the god thing, keep trying to impose their beliefs in law and various other things. I'd be willing to bet that if those things didn't happen, you'd find far less people singing about it.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
Wouldn't the more evolved and intelligent person move on from the useless and move toward what is more useful?
Watch the thinly veiled ad hominems. I think it is quite useful for someone who's angered by theism to sing about how they are angry about theism. Useful in the very least that the person who is angry is expressing that anger.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
Is it more useful to simply say, "God does not exist." or is it more useful to give the evidence of that stance?
This is not the stance of atheism. Honestly, we've been down this road several times with you, what is your hang up with this gross misunderstanding?

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2011, 09:04:56 PM »
Why does the Atheist not sing about what they DO BELIEVE
In its strict definition Atheism is not a belief. It is lack of belief.

You could losely classity any non religious song as an Atheist song, which would be the majority of them.
The purpose of this thread was to highlight songs that express a disbeleif in gods.

My question is:  If Atheism is correct, what is the point of "Atheist Song"?

What is the point of any song? Music and song are forms of expression, just like posting on internet fora. You might as well ask, "What is the point of an atheist forum?" The answer would vary depending on who answers, just as it would in reply to the above question.

Where is the intelligence in singing about the disbelief in the non-existent?  Why not better or more intelligently sing about that which IS believed?

You're asking for people to have rational reasons for making (and performing) art? That's a new one on me.  

Is not the consensus of Atheism that Christians are stupid?

No it isn't, and I know that you know better than to act as if you are justified in generalizing from one particular statement to include the whole of anything. I'm not sure why you're doing so, but, whatever blows your skirt up...


Why keep 'preaching' stupid ideas as such and not better INFORM on the intelligent ideas instead?

Music and song can merely be for fun. People are not meat robots, and that includes atheists.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 09:08:28 PM by Recusant »
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Re: Atheist Songs
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2011, 09:27:16 PM »
Singing about a disbelief is a very valid topic,

I'm not saying it's not a valid topic/subject of songs.  I'm asking why it is that when asked for Atheist Songs, most songs sing about God, granted against God and Christian ideas/beliefs?

It's interesting you'd say I'm veiling ad hominem attacks but the one who posted THAT blatent ad hominem attack is allowed to do so with no word against it because it fits the consensus of the forum.  No person called the poster out for making the claim that a gathering of religious people constitutes an overall atmosphere of stupidity.

It's not an attack, by the way.  It's an acknowledgment to the fact of this forum.  It may not be EVERYONE's point of view, but certainly it is a point of view that is acceptable.  So I ask...why is not the more intelligent person singing about more intelligent things rather than harping on the ramblings of the stupid, ignorant, blind?

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic or provoke a "fight".  I'm genuinely curious.  Why would the Atheist sing about fairytale ideas and not sing MORE about why the Atheist is an Atheist...not why a Christian is stupid or their God stupid/non-existent?  The topic was Atheist Songs, not AntiChristian God Songs.

Whitney

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2011, 09:39:22 PM »
The songs are in English...the majority of the Western world speaks English...Most of the Western world is more free to speak openly about disbelief in god...most of the Western world is surrounded by a culture that pushes Judeo-Christian God belief...therefore, most songs you'll see listed here are going to naturally refer to the christian god in some way.

Cultures which are not free and/or are not highly religious are not going to create an atmosphere in which the non-believers of that region feel much of a need to put their opinion into song...songs are for sharing something you think others need to hear.

Not to mention that a song can't be an "atheist" song unless it has something to do with disbelief in god....to find actual values we have to move outside of atheism and into a wide variety of philosophical stances that various atheists take.

Davin

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Re: Atheist Songs
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2011, 09:49:27 PM »
Singing about a disbelief is a very valid topic,

I'm not saying it's not a valid topic/subject of songs.  I'm asking why it is that when asked for Atheist Songs, most songs sing about God, granted against God and Christian ideas/beliefs?
I answered this a few times already.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
It's interesting you'd say I'm veiling ad hominem attacks but the one who posted THAT blatent ad hominem attack is allowed to do so with no word against it because it fits the consensus of the forum. No person called the poster out for making the claim that a gathering of religious people constitutes an overall atmosphere of stupidity.
Take it up with THAT person then.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
It's not an attack, by the way.  It's an acknowledgment to the fact of this forum.  It may not be EVERYONE's point of view, but certainly it is a point of view that is acceptable.  So I ask...why is not the more intelligent person singing about more intelligent things rather than harping on the ramblings of the stupid, ignorant, blind?
Already done been answered. Perhaps you could address the things already said in answer to your question. Also, address the issues you have with people, with the people that expressed them, it's unreasonable to ask someone else to answer for someone who they don't agree with.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt
I'm really not trying to be antagonistic or provoke a "fight".  I'm genuinely curious.  Why would the Atheist sing about fairytale ideas and not sing MORE about why the Atheist is an Atheist...not why a Christian is stupid or their God stupid/non-existent?  The topic was Atheist Songs, not AntiChristian God Songs.
If you're genuinely curious, you already have answers to these questions.

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2011, 09:58:48 PM »
The songs are in English...the majority of the Western world speaks English...Most of the Western world is more free to speak openly about disbelief in god...most of the Western world is surrounded by a culture that pushes Judeo-Christian God belief...therefore, most songs you'll see listed here are going to naturally refer to the christian god in some way.
Understood.  So when I ask for Atheist Songs that are void of what Atheism disbelieves in, I get more AntiChristian songs.  I understand why, but then it seems to go against the "Happy" in Happy Atheist.  The songs seem to convey a sadistic happy rather than a genuinely happy song.  What happiness comes from poking fun at the Christian and his/her God/beliefs?  To some degree, I can see a sense of "ha-ha!", but after all that, what?  Is that the only thing Atheism is about?  I don't think so or else there wouldn't be a forum named, "Life as an Atheist" here at HAF where the main point is about life APART from religion.
Quote from: Whitney
Not to mention that a song can't be an "atheist" song unless it has something to do with disbelief in god....to find actual values we have to move outside of atheism and into a wide variety of philosophical stances that various atheists take.
I'm not so sure.  However I may not be totally right, I think this may also not be totally correct.

Is Atheism defined as disblief in the Christian God or a disbelief in any god?  So far the majority of songs are antiChristian.  Not one has anything to do with being antiGSM.

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2011, 10:15:06 PM »
Take it up with THAT person then.

Also, address the issues you have with people, with the people that expressed them, it's unreasonable to ask someone else to answer for someone who they don't agree with.

It doesn't bother me at all that some person would think this.  I've grown to accept the consensus of this forum in that regard (and life in general).  I don't have issue.  I simply pointed at the most recent accepted thinking that Christians and/or religious people are overall stupid.  No one disagreed, therefore, the consensus is that Atheism and it's followers in disbelief are less stupid, therefore more intelligent.  I asked a question based on this intelligence...that's all.  I don't need it pointed out that the poster of that comment did anything wrong as that is not the point.  The flow of that thread confirms the overall consensus and I simply used that consensus in my question here and referred to that post so that no one think I'm making things up.

No ad hominem attack intended.

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2011, 10:34:40 PM »
Is Atheism defined as disblief in the Christian God or a disbelief in any god?  So far the majority of songs are antiChristian.  Not one has anything to do with being antiGSM.

Atheism is defined as not believeing in any god or gods. Other then that, I think Whitney already answered you main question. The reason you end up with a bunch of songs that are determined as "atheist" and point thier finger more directly at christianity, is because most of these songs are written by people whose first or second languege is english, and who most likely have been born in what we consider the western world. Also, christianity has been a defining factor of cultures, laguages in their expressions as well as vocabulary and other areas of life for a better part of some 15 or more centuries (counting from when it became the official religion of the Roman Empire and gained massivly more influnce culturally and later on politically).

We have less beef with other gods, because we know less about them, and we don't encounter people who as agressivly try to sell their "holy of holier"-stories as fact, Truth and reality. Personally I wouldn't mind listening to a Norse priest talking about the deeds of Odin then listen how YHWH is supperior and can do whatever he wants to break the rules he set up and the others have to obey or we get eternally tortured.

I think you get my point. I just find it suprising that you find it suprising that most songs are about christianity...and personally I don't speak other languages then finnish and english, so if someone has sang an "atheist song" in India, china or Japan about their religions, I wouldn't know, since they would most likely use the language they themselves speak, in order to capture the attention of the people around them rather then ours....

And as a side note, when ever someone uses the "if Athesim is correct...."-phrase, I fell a mental kick to the gonads, since it is both uterrly laughable and inherintly dishonest. Atheism makes no claims, so how in the hell could it be "correct", as the phrase tries to imply? *roll eyes* T be honset, it's not that it's somehow "correct", but that all religions are just silly....
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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2011, 10:37:07 PM »
I was searching on Atheist Songs...

"Strictly speaking, any song that doesn’t mention God or gods is an a-theist song.  That said, it is still fun to listen to songs that specifically debunk religion, critique faith, express healthy skepticism, laud doubt, celebrate the natural world, advocate humanist principles, uphold reason, declare love, or in one way or another offer a secular orientation that is moral, libratory, valuable, joyous, and vibrant."
Phil's 65 Greatest Atheist/Agnostic Songs

This did make me giggle.  :)

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2011, 10:59:12 PM »
Since I have too many problems quoting long quotes, I simply will answer History Geek from his above post.

I understand why Christianity is the topic of most "Atheist Songs", that is not what I'm having issue with.  I'm wondering why (again not intended to be an ad hominem attack but rather the general consensus) a more intelligent people wouldn't move on from poking fun at something they disagree with and be Happy Atheists?  Why not better sing about what makes one truely happy.  Is this to say that one is only happy when making fun of the Christian God?  I get all the 'this is an English forum...' and that most people are frustrated with Christians and their 'agendas'.

Again I ask;  Does this not bother the Atheist that even Atheists seem to inject God in everything?  Can Atheism be only about the Christian God?  The English speaking "Atheist" then is better categorized not by being Atheist but by being antichristian...as that is the crux of the "Atheist's" music.  How am I getting this wrong?  Atheist songs would be about gods and not ONE God in particular.  Even the web page I refer to above talks about celebrating the natural world, advocate humanist principles, uphold reason, declare love...secular orientation.  All these are "Atheist" ideas and most Atheists would regard the majority of these as worthy causes.  Yet the cause we see most in Atheist Songs is promoting antichristian ideas and/or promoting scorn at their fellow humans who hold Christian ideas.

I get the Christian God is the biggest "problem" to the Atheist.  What I don't get is the Atheist sings predominantly about that which he/she has no belief in and therefore gives the idea more of a platform.  Not exactly, but similar to the Streisand Effect.

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2011, 01:34:09 AM »
Is Atheism defined as disblief in the Christian God or a disbelief in any god?  So far the majority of songs are antiChristian.  Not one has anything to do with being antiGSM.

It's disbelief in any god...I thought I already explained why songs that have focus on the Judeo-Chrsitian god would be more prevalent in posts made to this board.

I also think you are putting too much emphasis on the forum title....it's just meant to break a sterotype (the one where some christians try to claim that an atheist is just angry); it's not meant to imply that being an atheist makes one happy or that everything an atheist does or likes will have a happy feel to it. 


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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2011, 02:20:27 AM »
Here be one for yee, there be no references to god in this music yet Brian Eno considers himself to be an "evangelical atheist".

Brian Eno - Stars or one you may know Brian Eno - An Ending (Ascent).
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Stevil

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2011, 02:30:09 AM »
I'm wondering why more intelligent people wouldn't move on from poking fun at something they disagree with and be Happy Atheists?  Why not better sing about what makes one truely happy.  Is this to say that one is only happy when making fun of the Christian God?
Why should songs be happy joy joy?
I predominately listen to heavy metal. Mostly written in the minor scale and played with energy and aggression.
Some people like the Blues, which is mostly sad songs.
Country is often a sad form of music.
RAP seems to be people that are pissed at the police.
Punk is people that dont want no rulz, anti establishment.

Maybe the Christians have cornered the market on happy songs, "Kubaiya me Lord" anyone? Or my party favourite "He's got the whole world in his hands", always good for a laugh, that one.

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Re: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2011, 02:49:04 AM »
I understand why Christianity is the topic of most "Atheist Songs", that is not what I'm having issue with.  I'm wondering why (again not intended to be an ad hominem attack but rather the general consensus) a more intelligent people wouldn't move on from poking fun at something they disagree with and be Happy Atheists?  Why not better sing about what makes one truely happy.  Is this to say that one is only happy when making fun of the Christian God?  I get all the 'this is an English forum...' and that most people are frustrated with Christians and their 'agendas'.

Since atheism is defined as a disbelief in gods, that's all an "atheist song" would be about.  I'm sure atheists inclined to sing do so about many things, but those songs aren't "atheist songs" -- they're songs about sunshine on your shoulders making you happy, just as one for instance.  And there's nothing wrong with songs puncturing someone or something that irks you -- possibly on daily basis depending on where you live.  It's a harmless form of venting.

Quote
Again I ask;  Does this not bother the Atheist that even Atheists seem to inject God in everything?  Can Atheism be only about the Christian God?  The English speaking "Atheist" then is better categorized not by being Atheist but by being antichristian...as that is the crux of the "Atheist's" music.  How am I getting this wrong?

1.  assuming that someone who is an atheist is nothing else, and that we discuss nothing but atheism (you are aware you're on an atheist forum, which determines the subject matter you'll be reading here and not the subject matter common to each individual's life, aren't you?)
2.  atheism is about disbelief in any god, but the god belief that naturally gets the most flack is the one the individual most often has to deal with (if I were living in Saudi Arabia, I'd be privately singing mocking ditties about Allah).  

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