what sort of evidence would it take?

[DJAkuma]

I'm sure this question has been asked by a ton of theists trying to probe atheists so they can spout something from the bible as the "proof" that was asked for.

What I'm looking for is what would qualify as evidence for a deity. I think proving the existence of the god of the bible is out of the question as he can't logically exist when defined by the very book that describes him. If there were some other sort of deity that exists it would have to be one that isn't a contradiction to itself and any evidence for its existence would naturally have to either fit with or redefine our understanding of how the universe works.

For me, there's a few things a deity could do that I think would make any rational person acknowledge that there could be a being that would qualify as a god

growing back the limb of an amputee as a direct result of prayer would be pretty convincing. Or fixing a severed spinal cord.

Discovery of an animal that cannot be explained to have evolved naturally like a fire breathing dragon, a griffin, a six-limbed reptile with wings, etc.

Aside from the above examples I can't really think of anything else, what would do it for you?

[The Magic Pudding]

growing back the limb of an amputee as a direct result of prayer would be pretty convincing. Or fixing a severed spinal cord.

Discovery of an animal that cannot be explained to have evolved naturally like a fire breathing dragon, a griffin, a six-limbed reptile with wings, etc.

Aside from the above examples I can't really think of anything else, what would do it for you?

None of those things would convince me of a god, if we survive the century we may be able to achieve these wonders ourselves.
I can't say I've done it myself but others seem to fall prey to all kinds of imaginary shit, if I start seeing flying turtles and retain the ability to reflect on it, I think I'll go get some sleep and see if they're still there in the morning.

Seeing evidence of god is evidence of a misfiring mind I think, so if I start seeing this evidence it's more likely my brain is faulty than god is reality.

[joeactor]

Yeppers... been asked before (but the thread's locked) - see here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81

[Stevil]

Yeppers... been asked before (but the thread's locked) - see here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81

That thread didn't go too well, too many alteria motives.

If we were to do this in a scientific way. We would need a definition of the term "god"
Then we would need to workout what tests are needed to be passed for an entity to qualify.
We would need a willing participant to partake of the tests.
We would need some impartial observers, video footage, documented results and reseaons why only a god and no other entity could pass those tests.


I think stating "what evidence would it take" is jumping the gun.
e.g. if the definition of a god was "An intelligent being that created the universe"
Well, we have no clue how the universe got created. There is no proof of anything in this department.
TheJackle has a good arguement against this. If there is no energy or matter or space then:
1. What is god made of?
2. Where does god reside?
3. Where does this god get its intelligence from, given there is no energy, matter, data, information to base knowledge or intelligence off of?
Also "creation of the universe" is a bit vague. Are we saying creation of the energy/matter that makes up the universe or are we saying the initiator of the big bang (given that the energy/matter may have already been there is a rather large black hole?

If we state that god is "the entity that answers prayers"
We would then need to prove that prayers are being answered. This would beg the question, whose prayers? How often? Are these answered prayers any different to the natuarally occuring events. Do prayers need to be spoken outloud, do prayers have to be requested from a viruous person? Do prayers have to be directed towards a particular god?
You'd think statistically that this one could be proven one way or another.

What else is the definition of a god and how can it be tested?

BTW we seem to be trying to find something that matches a definition rather than finding something and then coming up with a definition of that something and giving this definition a name (noun).

[no good boyo]

I would require an absolute miracle. Something so astounding and magnificent that it cannot be explained by logic and reason. I'm not talking - the silhouette jesus appearing on a potato chip. I’m talking – the dead coming back to life type stuff. Something where there is absolutely no other explanation other than divine intervention. Even then, I’d still have doubts though. I guess the big guy has his work cut out. But what is one more miracle? They were 10 a penny 2000 years ago. Bout time he earned his (lack of) existence.

[hismikeness]

I answered this in a different thread a while back. My answer remains the same.

Mere Christianity

[DJAkuma]

I would require an absolute miracle. Something so astounding and magnificent that it cannot be explained by logic and reason. I'm not talking - the silhouette jesus appearing on a potato chip. I’m talking – the dead coming back to life type stuff. Something where there is absolutely no other explanation other than divine intervention. Even then, I’d still have doubts though. I guess the big guy has his work cut out. But what is one more miracle? They were 10 a penny 2000 years ago. Bout time he earned his (lack of) existence.

That's what I was getting at, I think even if some omnipotent being showed up in person and performed "miracles" it should still be able to be explained through the scientific method.

Given the vastness of the universe I don't discount the possibility that there could be a life form that would qualify as godlike by human standards.

Even if it did happen I'd still be wondering why a supremely powerful being would care what a certain species of primate on a little planet circling an ordinary star in an unremarkable galaxy does with their genitals.

[DJAkuma]

Yeppers... been asked before (but the thread's locked) - see here:
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81

If we state that god is "the entity that answers prayers"
We would then need to prove that prayers are being answered. This would beg the question, whose prayers? How often? Are these answered prayers any different to the natuarally occuring events. Do prayers need to be spoken outloud, do prayers have to be requested from a viruous person? Do prayers have to be directed towards a particular god?
You'd think statistically that this one could be proven one way or another.

That's probably the simplest and easiest thing to test for and has probably been done at least in some sense. It shouldn't be difficult to set up a series experiments, the hard part would be making sure to verify results to keep people from outright lying or providing subjective or false data.

[Whitney]

Just for a generic creator god (defined as an intelligent entity that created all that exists in our universe and beyond) I am fairly certain a philosophical argument that is without holes would sway me to the agnostic theist side.  But all the arguments I know of are flawed in at least some way; and I'm fairly certain I've been exposed to all the arguments to date between internet forums and having taken Philosophy of Religion.

[DJAkuma]

Just for a generic creator god (defined as an intelligent entity that created all that exists in our universe and beyond) I am fairly certain a philosophical argument that is without holes would sway me to the agnostic theist side.  But all the arguments I know of are flawed in at least some way; and I'm fairly certain I've been exposed to all the arguments to date between internet forums and having taken Philosophy of Religion.

I think that until any real and tangible evidence comes to light the philosophical and logical argument for any deity is dead in the water. I really don't think there's anything new that can be said.

[DirtyLeo]

Given the vastness of the universe I don't discount the possibility that there could be a life form that would qualify as godlike by human standards.

No need to go that far. It is sufficient to speculate about our future.
It is very likely that 25th century humankind will be godlike compared to 21st century humankind, just as we are godlike in so many ways or we do some many godlike things compared to a person who lived a few centuries ago.

(by "godlike" compared to someone from the past, I mean "flying, communicating with others on other parts of the world instantly, breathing under the water, walking on the moon, etc.).

Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd law states: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

As science progresses, it is going to be hard to find godlike things that constitute scientific evidence in favour of a creator and that we are unlikely to achieve by future scientific advances.

[xSilverPhinx]

growing back the limb of an amputee as a direct result of prayer would be pretty convincing. Or fixing a severed spinal cord.

That would do it for me, they would be examples of direct intervention, which is basically what I would require as proof.  

Discovery of an animal that cannot be explained to have evolved naturally like a fire breathing dragon, a griffin, a six-limbed reptile with wings, etc.

No, these are arguments from ignorance, I would put that sort of jugdment (whether there is a creator or not) on hold.

Having a Jesus cracker turn into consistently one person's flesh and blood (who's genetic markers can trace him back to the jewish people living in Isreal 2000 years ago) would do it for me too

[fester30]

If my grilled cheezus started talking to me, and told me to go to a mountain, and at this mountain there was god roasting marshmallows over a burning bush while parting a river so that people could cross it to approach the mountain and marvel at his ability to make the mountain fly through the air by summoning the power from a tiny jar of faith the size of a mustard seed that grows into a sophisticated device with an LED display and the ability to actually measure godly presence, and that godly presence meter was off the charts...

someone better get me to rehab.

If God would just quit fucking around and actually reveal himself, like he apparently also didn't do to humans back when we were still hunters and gatherers (what took him so long to tell us he existed?), then I would believe.  I mean really reveal himself, in a way that cannot be explained away as hallucinations or illusions.  Oh, and he better not turn out to be a total asshole like he is in the Bible, or I think I'd go ahead and choose hell or the firy pit or whatever.