Author Topic: American Politics for a naive Limy.  (Read 1144 times)

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30280
  • Gender: Male
American Politics for a naive Limy.
« on: June 20, 2010, 09:10:29 AM »
I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Thumpalumpacus

  • Not Defeated by the Dark Night of the Soul
  • ****
  • Posts: 1882
  • Gender: Male
    • Some songs I wrote.
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 09:50:58 AM »
It's a matter of appealing to the lowest common denominator in hopes of trolling the most votes, I think.  It doesn't help that a large swath of the country have points they gird with verses.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

pinkocommie

  • Doesn't Believe the Universe Was Made for Them
  • ****
  • Posts: 1395
    • http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 10:11:45 AM »
I have to preface this by saying - I am no political aficionado by any means.  I'm 28 and self identify as a liberal, but I'm not trying to claim any special understanding or knowledge about politics.

My first impulse is to say that the vitriol simply gets the most attention and is not truly indicative of the majority of people's behavior - but I could be wrong about that.  Also, the fact that America has become essentially a two party political climate sort of sets the stage for polarization, which I feel has been made worse in recent years with the whole 'religious right' movement gaining popularity.  That, and we likes us some Jerry Springer action.  So maybe it's a cultural thing as well.  :D
Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/

Gawen

  • Would rather be flying a B17
  • Knows Who'd Win a Fight Between Superman and Batman
  • ****
  • Posts: 1444
  • Gender: Male
  • Cylon Occupied Texas
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 12:14:30 PM »
I don't know. Maybe that's what we get with a two party system...
The essence of the mind is not in what it thinks, but how it thinks. Faith is the surrender of our mind; of reason and our skepticism to put all our trust or faith in someone or something that has no good evidence of itself. That is a sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith is not.
"When you fall, I will be there" - Floor

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30280
  • Gender: Male
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 07:31:34 PM »
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
It's a matter of appealing to the lowest common denominator in hopes of trolling the most votes, I think.  It doesn't help that a large swath of the country have points they gird with verses.

 :hmm: Never heard that term before.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30280
  • Gender: Male
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 07:54:15 PM »
@Pinko
I'm not a particularly political animal, although I always vote. However at different times I have voted all the way across the political spectrum. It is interesting that you note the large disaffected/apathetic group.  

One thing that looks very different in the US from the UK is the way it is acceptable to rubbish one's opponent on a personal basis. That just doesn't happen here it would backfire on the person doing in.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30280
  • Gender: Male
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2010, 07:59:05 PM »
Quote from: "Gawen"
I don't know. Maybe that's what we get with a two party system...

Possibly.

One thing I have noted while working in the US is that when people argue they both start out from the position that they are right and it is for the other party to 'prove' they are wrong. In the UK people are never quite so certain that they are right. There is often a sense of finding a common best solution.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

elliebean

  • Sprach mit Zarathustra
  • ****
  • Posts: 1052
    • http://www.myspace.com/gray_lerner
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2010, 10:04:37 PM »
The vitriol between the voters is manufactured by politicians with the help of mainstream (and other) media through image branding and marketing to create the illusion of a two-party system, where the real differences between the two parties are miniscule; but the people buy it and think they're really involved in the process, which they are also led to believe is important.


But I could just be cynical.  :devil:
[size=150]—Ellie [/size]
You can’t lie to yourself. If you do you’ve only fooled a deluded person and where’s the victory in that?—Ricky Gervais

Big Mac

  • Buddies With Uncle Bert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1226
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2010, 10:57:37 PM »
Quote from: "Tank"
I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.


It's a sign that we need to regulate who can and cannot vote. I don't mean to sound like an elitist but I would be in favor of a stringent voting test that would exclude those who are just slow and ignorant. Originally they had such tests but they were designed to keep minorities from voting. I propose a test where no moron could vote. Politicians pander to these idiots because they are the majority. So often they paint themselves into these idiot corners where they ramble on about some of the dumbest positions imaginable.

Americans also try to classify themselves in really, really simplistic ways. I'm a Libertarian but I'll vote for the right person who will uphold the US Constitution via their voting records. If they truly are concerned statesmen who wish to help this country and its people, I'll be all too happy to vote. I don't try to bog myself down to just one party. Then again, I'm a mix bag type when it comes to politics. Stay out of my bedroom, my bank account, my browser, etc. Don't give me a bureaucracy for every aspect of my life. Don't tell me I can't enjoy XYZ when it harms no one (or if it harms anyone it is just me harming myself ie Drinking and Smoking). I have no real party affiliation though I tend to vote Republican only because they seem to be more likely to defend my gun rights and other issues I hold important.
Quote from: "PoopShoot"
And what if pigs shit candy?

TheJackel

  • Rides the Sonic Rain Boom
  • **
  • Posts: 515
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2010, 11:22:54 PM »
Quote from: "Tank"
I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.

I wouldn't disagree one bit.. Have you ever been to Canada for example? The American media and politics is all about dirty play. I would say it's a Fear mongering war over who can scare the most people into voting for them, or win a popularity contests as it were high school.. So few politicians in America ever seriously attempt to tackle the real problems here in America. It's indeed in pretty bad shape.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30280
  • Gender: Male
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2010, 11:39:25 PM »
Quote from: "elliebean"
The vitriol between the voters is manufactured by politicians with the help of mainstream (and other) media through image branding and marketing to create the illusion of a two-party system, where the real differences between the two parties are miniscule; but the people buy it and think they're really involved in the process, which they are also led to believe is important.


But I could just be cynical.  :devil:
I must say I do tend to see little difference, from this distance, between the democrats or republicans. What do they see as the differences between each other?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30280
  • Gender: Male
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2010, 11:42:44 PM »
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "Tank"
I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.

It's a sign that we need to regulate who can and cannot vote. I don't mean to sound like an elitist but I would be in favor of a stringent voting test that would exclude those who are just slow and ignorant. Originally they had such tests but they were designed to keep minorities from voting. I propose a test where no moron could vote. Politicians pander to these idiots because they are the majority. So often they paint themselves into these idiot corners where they ramble on about some of the dumbest positions imaginable.

Americans also try to classify themselves in really, really simplistic ways. I'm a Libertarian but I'll vote for the right person who will uphold the US Constitution via their voting records. If they truly are concerned statesmen who wish to help this country and its people, I'll be all too happy to vote. I don't try to bog myself down to just one party. Then again, I'm a mix bag type when it comes to politics. Stay out of my bedroom, my bank account, my browser, etc. Don't give me a bureaucracy for every aspect of my life. Don't tell me I can't enjoy XYZ when it harms no one (or if it harms anyone it is just me harming myself ie Drinking and Smoking). I have no real party affiliation though I tend to vote Republican only because they seem to be more likely to defend my gun rights and other issues I hold important.
Thank you for this insights. Just assimilating them along with the others here [IMG]http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2922/cheersi.gif[/IMG
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30280
  • Gender: Male
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2010, 11:43:28 PM »
Quote from: "TheJackel"
Quote from: "Tank"
I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.

I wouldn't disagree one bit.. Have you ever been to Canada for example? The American media and politics is all about dirty play. I would say it's a Fear mongering war over who can scare the most people into voting for them, or win a popularity contests as it were high school.. So few politicians in America ever seriously attempt to tackle the real problems here in America. It's indeed in pretty bad shape.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Businessocks

  • Made of Star Stuff
  • *
  • Posts: 86
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2010, 03:50:01 AM »
Quote from: "Tank"
I must say I do tend to see little difference, from this distance, between the democrats or republicans. What do they see as the differences between each other?

I'll try to answer in as unbiased as a manner as I can.  These are just the talking points, sweeping generalizations, and not indicative necessarily of how I view anyone from either party.  Clear as mud? :headbang:
The god of the cannibals will be a cannibal, of the crusaders a crusader, and of the merchants a merchant.  -Ralph Waldo Emerson

pinkocommie

  • Doesn't Believe the Universe Was Made for Them
  • ****
  • Posts: 1395
    • http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/
Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2010, 04:09:28 AM »
Quote from: "Businessocks"
Quote from: "Tank"
I must say I do tend to see little difference, from this distance, between the democrats or republicans. What do they see as the differences between each other?

I'll try to answer in as unbiased as a manner as I can.  These are just the talking points, sweeping generalizations, and not indicative necessarily of how I view anyone from either party.  Clear as mud? :headbang:

I agree with pretty much everything written here.   :yay:
Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/