Author Topic: Jesus is not God  (Read 778 times)

Recusant

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2019, 03:10:09 PM »
Jesus Christ was not Atheist, theists claim!

Surely you are capable of carrying on a basic conversation. Spouting slogans while ignoring relevant queries isn't going to achieve anything beyond alienating members of this site.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Red_Cloud

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2019, 03:17:04 PM »
Thomas J. J. Altizer says:
“Every man today who is open to experience knows that God is absent, but only the Christian knows that God is dead, that the death of God is a final and irrevocable event and that God's death has actualized in our history a new and liberated humanity.”

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2019, 11:28:12 PM »
Jesus Christ was not Atheist, theists claim!

Surely you are capable of carrying on a basic conversation. Spouting slogans while ignoring relevant queries isn't going to achieve anything beyond alienating members of this site.

Ricardo, você entendeu que ele está pedindo para você responder as perguntas dele? Se precisar de ajuda é só falar.
Give no mercy to your fear.



Icarus

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2019, 12:14:26 AM »
Many christian denominations truly believe that Jesus is God.  Some believe in the trinity, others believe that he is/was the son of God, without the holy ghost.  Almost all the southern Baptist types believe that in order to be admitted to heaven the individual must swear an oath that "Jesus is my lord and savior".   So for southern Baptists, Jesus is God.

The salient question is whether the Jesus of the Christian bible ever actually existed.   If he did exist was he merely an ancient con man or was he the son of God or even God himself in earthly disguise? Was Paul just making up a lot of fairy tales when he did the super sales job on behalf of  the real or invented Jesus person?   Which Jesus?  At that time the name "Jesus" was a common one.  Which of the many are we to be persuaded (or conned) to worship?  Along about that time another magic man named Appolonius was doing more miraculous stuff than the biblical Jesus person. He was far more educated, more widely traveled, a superior magician, and a skilled orator.  He doesn't get any mention at all in the Christian scriptures.  Maybe he was the son of God and the ancients got their names and characters mixed up.

Ricardo

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2019, 01:13:16 AM »
I think you are perfectly well aware that the vast majority of Christians believe that Jesus is the Christian god, correct?

 Jesus in the New Testament just stated that He was a messenger of God!

I'm not asking for your interpretation of the New Testament. I'm asking if you're aware of the fact that the vast majority of Christians believe that Jesus is their god. Can you honestly answer my question?
yes for most Jesus is god for Christians

Ricardo

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2019, 01:17:11 AM »
Jesus Christ was not Atheist, theists claim!

Surely you are capable of carrying on a basic conversation. Spouting slogans while ignoring relevant queries isn't going to achieve anything beyond alienating members of this site.
In the New Testament Jesus claimed not to be God, but Christians did not invent in what way Jesus is God, this is Christian dogma.

Ricardo

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2019, 01:18:35 AM »
Jesus Christ was not Atheist, theists claim!

Surely you are capable of carrying on a basic conversation. Spouting slogans while ignoring relevant queries isn't going to achieve anything beyond alienating members of this site.

Ricardo, você entendeu que ele está pedindo para você responder as perguntas dele? Se precisar de ajuda é só falar.
ok responda a ele.

Recusant

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2019, 08:39:16 AM »
In the New Testament Jesus claimed not to be God, but Christians did not invent in what way Jesus is God, this is Christian dogma.

Thank you for answering. Ecurb Noselrub already cited one example in the Bible stating unequivocally that Jesus and the Christian god are one.

Quote
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

[John 1:1-5]

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[John 1-14]

Jesus is clearly claiming to be the Jewish god when he says in the Gospel of John:

Quote
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

Beyond this, there are many examples in the New Testament in which it is stated explicitly that Jesus is the Christian god. Why do you claim that Jesus said that he wasn't?
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Recusant

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2019, 08:45:20 AM »
Jesus Christ was not Atheist, theists claim!

What?

(P.S.) Dear Mr.Recusant:- I thought that smiley was just a nice waving smiley. I didn't notice the upended digit. Could you remove it immediately please. And am I now banned? . . . Oh dear! :shocked:

I know that most sites have a brief window in which editing of posts is allowed. That is not the case here. You can edit that post yourself if you wish.

Just as I'm giving Ricardo the benefit of the doubt in regard to his claim to be an atheist, I extend the same courtesy to you in this matter.

I certainly am not going to ban you--except for would-be spammers I'm strongly against summary banning. However, if it gratifies you to hurl abuse at people you find disagreeable it would be best if you do so elsewhere, and stick to rational discourse on this site. Thank you.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Tank

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2019, 08:53:28 AM »
Jesus Christ was not Atheist, theists claim!

What?

(P.S.) Dear Mr.Recusant:- I thought that smiley was just a nice waving smiley. I didn't notice the upended digit. Could you remove it immediately please. And am I now banned? . . . Oh dear! :shocked:

I know that most sites have a brief window in which editing of posts is allowed. That is not the case here. You can edit that post yourself if you wish.

Just as I'm giving Ricardo the benefit of the doubt in regard to his claim to be an atheist, I extend the same courtesy to you in this matter.

I certainly am not going to ban you--except for would-be spammers I'm strongly against summary banning.

You are the Ying to my Yang in that respect.  ;D
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Red_Cloud

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2019, 09:18:13 AM »

You are the Ying to my Yang in that respect.  ;D

Well thank you Tank! :daisies:

Red_Cloud

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2019, 09:28:15 AM »
Jesus Christ was not Atheist, theists claim!

Surely you are capable of carrying on a basic conversation. Spouting slogans while ignoring relevant queries isn't going to achieve anything beyond alienating members of this site.

That is what I was trying to say in my earlier post Recusant . . . But somehow it didn't come out the same! :shrug:

Ricardo

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2019, 05:02:29 PM »
In the New Testament Jesus claimed not to be God, but Christians did not invent in what way Jesus is God, this is Christian dogma.

Thank you for answering. Ecurb Noselrub already cited one example in the Bible stating unequivocally that Jesus and the Christian god are one.

Quote
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

[John 1:1-5]

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[John 1-14]

Jesus is clearly claiming to be the Jewish god when he says in the Gospel of John:

Quote
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

Beyond this, there are many examples in the New Testament in which it is stated explicitly that Jesus is the Christian god. Why do you claim that Jesus said that he wasn't?
The divinity of Jesus is proved
for your words? I think not !
“You have heard what I said to you, I go and return to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice because I am going to my Father, because my Father is GREATER THAN
I. ”(John, XIV: 28.)

Recusant

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2019, 06:59:55 PM »
The divinity of Jesus is proved
for your words? I think not !
“You have heard what I said to you, I go and return to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice because I am going to my Father, because my Father is GREATER THAN
I. ”(John, XIV: 28.)

You misunderstand me. I am not claiming that Jesus was divine. I am pointing out that the majority of Christians believe that he is their god. I have shown that their belief is supported by their book, whether you like that or not.

Your inane claim that atheists mistakenly "think that Jesus and God are the same thing" is unsupportable and counterfactual.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Ricardo

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Re: Jesus is not God
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2019, 07:29:14 PM »
The divinity of Jesus is proved
for your words? I think not !
“You have heard what I said to you, I go and return to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice because I am going to my Father, because my Father is GREATER THAN
I. ”(John, XIV: 28.)

You misunderstand me. I am not claiming that Jesus was divine. I am pointing out that the majority of Christians believe that he is their god. I have shown that their belief is supported by their book, whether you like that or not.

Your inane claim that atheists mistakenly "think that Jesus and God are the same thing" is unsupportable and counterfactual.
I am an atheist, and to me there is no evidence that the Historical Jesus existed!