Author Topic: Refuting Theistic Arguments  (Read 1895 times)

Ricardo

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2019, 01:56:54 AM »
Can't you prove a negative? It is a reversal of the burden of proof!

Despite the adage that holds the impossibility of proving a negative, it is possible in some cases. However, the concept of gods is so diffuse that proving their non-existence is in my opinion a fool's errand.

I agree that the challenge to prove that gods don't exist is an attempt to reverse the burden of proof. But the sort of person who would issue that challenge would also never let logical fallacies get in the way of their march to triumph. On the other hand, if a person claims to know that gods do not exist, they take on their own burden of proof. Personally I don't make that claim. I don't believe that gods exist, and I mentioned the main reason for my lack of belief above. I think that it is reasonable to doubt the existence of gods, and for me that in itself is enough. If any of the gods that religions tell us about truly existed, the evidence for these beings would be unequivocal and no reasonable person would question their existence.

Then there is the fact that in the history of our species, thousands of gods have been worshipped. The attributes of this multitude of gods are contradictory--religions simply can't all be telling us about the same beings. The more likely explanation is that gods are a product of human imagination and desires, which vary by location and era; the gods reflect that variability.

One can entertain the thought that one particular god or one particular pantheon of gods does exist, but which? How to winnow out all the thousands of false gods? Being born into the faith of one's family is not evidence that their faith is the one true faith out of all available. Statistically, it's unlikely to be so.

 If science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, how could theists prove the existence of God?

hermes2015

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2019, 04:16:49 AM »
Welcome to HAF, Ricardo. I cannot improve on the responses of the others who have done do.
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Red_Cloud

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2019, 05:34:36 AM »


I hope that was an attempt at humour. Even if it was, that's a rather harsh way to engage with a new member of this site. Please keep Rule 1 in mind. Thank you

Yes, quite right Recusant, my apologies to all! :offtobed:



Magdalena

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2019, 06:13:14 AM »
If science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, how could theists prove the existence of God?

They've proved it?

“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

Recusant

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2019, 09:17:47 AM »
If science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, how could theists prove the existence of God?

A useful principle to remember is this: Science does not actually prove or disprove the existence of anything. It's a means of gathering and understanding evidence, but conclusions remain tentative. That is, scientific conclusions can and will be modified or discarded in the face of sufficient scientific evidence. ("Scientific Proof Is A Myth" | Forbes)

Theists who may claim to have proved the existence of a god via science misunderstand how science works. An atheist who made a claim to have scientifically disproved the existence of a god would be committing the same mistake.

There are some supposed proofs of the existence of gods (often one of the Abrahamic gods) based on logical reasoning. Every one of them that I've come across fails, mostly because at least some the assumptions (premises) upon which they're based are questionable.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 11:10:47 AM by Recusant »
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Ricardo

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2019, 12:47:32 PM »
Welcome to HAF, Ricardo. I cannot improve on the responses of the others who have done do.
  :thumbsup: :

Ricardo

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2019, 12:48:40 PM »
 :snicker1:
If science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, how could theists prove the existence of God?

They've proved it?

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2019, 02:04:33 PM »
I have a valid contract that says that you must pay me $100 a week. You cannot prove that it doesn't exist. I do accept Bitcoin and will expect the payment every Monday by 10am MST.

Welcome to the forum, Ricardo.
Would you tell us a little bit about yourself, please?
If you don't want to, that's OK.
I'm from Brazil ! I have never participated in an atheism forum! I hope to learn more about atheism! Can this forum also learn about skepticism?

Another Brazilian!  ;D Seja bem vindo ao fórum, Ricardo!

Where in Brazil are you from? I live in Rio Grande do Sul...Porto Alegre to be exact.

You can learn about many things here, religion, atheism, skepticism etc. Though the members of this forum have become part of a small community and we generally talk about everyday topics, with the occasional atheism-related thread here and there so you won't find many of those but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask or discuss the topics you're more interested in talking about.   ;)

Eu me registrei neste fórum em 2010 (nossa, faz 9 anos já! :o ) e ajudou um monte meu inglês. Super recomendo para aprender e  manter a fluência! :thumbsup:




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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2019, 02:20:17 PM »
Science is about testable hypotheses and theories. These should be falsifiable as well. That is, new evidence can "disprove" a theory.

A well designed experiment has a number of positive and negative controls that give more statistical and scientific weight to the conclusions reached. How on Earth could you control for these things when dealing with the supernatural when science can only test natural events? Any supernatural occurrence (if they actually do occur), are beyond the realm of scientific inquiry. They are not testable and they are not falsifiable.

Whether god or gods exist is not a scientific question.
Give no mercy to your fear.



Ricardo

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2019, 03:57:51 PM »
Science is about testable hypotheses and theories. These should be falsifiable as well. That is, new evidence can "disprove" a theory.

A well designed experiment has a number of positive and negative controls that give more statistical and scientific weight to the conclusions reached. How on Earth could you control for these things when dealing with the supernatural when science can only test natural events? Any supernatural occurrence (if they actually do occur), are beyond the realm of scientific inquiry. They are not testable and they are not falsifiable.

Whether god or gods exist is not a scientific question.
xSilverPhinx: Thank you very much for the clarification!
Eu sou do interior do Estado de São Paulo !  que boa surpresa uma Brasileira !  :grin:

Ricardo

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2019, 04:01:51 PM »
I have a valid contract that says that you must pay me $100 a week. You cannot prove that it doesn't exist. I do accept Bitcoin and will expect the payment every Monday by 10am MST.

Welcome to the forum, Ricardo.
Would you tell us a little bit about yourself, please?
If you don't want to, that's OK.
I'm from Brazil ! I have never participated in an atheism forum! I hope to learn more about atheism! Can this forum also learn about skepticism?

Another Brazilian!  ;D Seja bem vindo ao fórum, Ricardo!

Where in Brazil are you from? I live in Rio Grande do Sul...Porto Alegre to be exact.

You can learn about many things here, religion, atheism, skepticism etc. Though the members of this forum have become part of a small community and we generally talk about everyday topics, with the occasional atheism-related thread here and there so you won't find many of those but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask or discuss the topics you're more interested in talking about.   ;)

Eu me registrei neste fórum em 2010 (nossa, faz 9 anos já! :o ) e ajudou um monte meu inglês. Super recomendo para aprender e  manter a fluência! :thumbsup:
xSilverPhinx: Are you a skeptic too? :)

Sandra Craft

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2019, 05:04:16 PM »
If science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, how could theists prove the existence of God?

They've proved it?

They prove it with faith.  Which only works in this context, lucky for them.
Sandy

  

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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2019, 05:34:48 PM »
I have a valid contract that says that you must pay me $100 a week. You cannot prove that it doesn't exist. I do accept Bitcoin and will expect the payment every Monday by 10am MST.

Welcome to the forum, Ricardo.
Would you tell us a little bit about yourself, please?
If you don't want to, that's OK.
I'm from Brazil ! I have never participated in an atheism forum! I hope to learn more about atheism! Can this forum also learn about skepticism?

Another Brazilian!  ;D Seja bem vindo ao fórum, Ricardo!

Where in Brazil are you from? I live in Rio Grande do Sul...Porto Alegre to be exact.

You can learn about many things here, religion, atheism, skepticism etc. Though the members of this forum have become part of a small community and we generally talk about everyday topics, with the occasional atheism-related thread here and there so you won't find many of those but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask or discuss the topics you're more interested in talking about.   ;)

Eu me registrei neste fórum em 2010 (nossa, faz 9 anos já! :o ) e ajudou um monte meu inglês. Super recomendo para aprender e  manter a fluência! :thumbsup:
xSilverPhinx: Are you a skeptic too? :)

I am! :grin:
Give no mercy to your fear.



xSilverPhinx

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2019, 05:36:48 PM »
Science is about testable hypotheses and theories. These should be falsifiable as well. That is, new evidence can "disprove" a theory.

A well designed experiment has a number of positive and negative controls that give more statistical and scientific weight to the conclusions reached. How on Earth could you control for these things when dealing with the supernatural when science can only test natural events? Any supernatural occurrence (if they actually do occur), are beyond the realm of scientific inquiry. They are not testable and they are not falsifiable.

Whether god or gods exist is not a scientific question.
xSilverPhinx: Thank you very much for the clarification!
Eu sou do interior do Estado de São Paulo !  que boa surpresa uma Brasileira !  :grin:

 ;D I don't think that in the past nine years there's been another Brazilian here.

:popcorn: We're taking over the internet.
Give no mercy to your fear.



hermes2015

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Re: Refuting Theistic Arguments
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2019, 05:48:01 PM »
Science is about testable hypotheses and theories. These should be falsifiable as well. That is, new evidence can "disprove" a theory.

A well designed experiment has a number of positive and negative controls that give more statistical and scientific weight to the conclusions reached. How on Earth could you control for these things when dealing with the supernatural when science can only test natural events? Any supernatural occurrence (if they actually do occur), are beyond the realm of scientific inquiry. They are not testable and they are not falsifiable.

Whether god or gods exist is not a scientific question.
xSilverPhinx: Thank you very much for the clarification!
Eu sou do interior do Estado de São Paulo !  que boa surpresa uma Brasileira !  :grin:

 ;D I don't think that in the past nine years there's been another Brazilian here.

:popcorn: We're taking over the internet.

Soon there will be gazillions of Brazilians here.
“Who is to say that pleasure is useless?”
― Charles Eames