Author Topic: US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty...  (Read 343 times)

Sherman Firefly

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US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty, joining Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

13 states voted against the resolution, Botswana, Burundi, Egypt, Ethiopia, Bangladesh, China, India, Iraq, Japan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the US and the United Arab Emirates.

I'm surprised that Japan also voted against.

Apparently "The United States voted against this resolution because of broader concerns with the resolution’s approach in condemning the death penalty in all circumstances and calling for its abolition."

US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty, joining Iraq and Saudi Arabia
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Asmodean

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Re: US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty...
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 10:01:19 AM »
<Insert The Asmo's FB comment here> ;-)

" I suspect that if "broader concerns with the resolution’s approach in condemning the death penalty in all circumstances and calling for its abolition" does hold, then China probably shares the same concerns, as does India. The rest of them... No real surprises there. Still, it would be interesting to read the entire resolution, if only to see how big of a point the homosexuality thing was in it. Independent do seem kind of careful in their wording, so my assumption is that it was a "one of many" kind of thing."

Done. Tank.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 12:03:56 PM by Tank »
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Asmodean

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Re: US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty...
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 03:00:09 PM »
Ha!  ;D

Ok, I guess it's close enough to the weekend, that I feel like another episode in The Asmo's "A Perspective" series is in order.

There are a few parts to this, as I see it.

The first and also the largest, is the Death Penalty™ in itself. In my somewhat limited experience, those countries where there is no death penalty tend to have a population which trends (though sometimes by a narrow margin) against the death penalty also, while people in those countries where death penalty is at the very least on the books tend to want to keep it that way.

From my perspective... In principle, I am not against capital punishment, but it has to be done "to my standards" or beyond, which in practice means that you don't really ever get to execute any one, what with the whole process of appeal, re-trials and what have you. So I guess my view can be summarised as "keep it on the books, just in case, and forget you have it there, until you need to remember."

There are some ethical and moral questions surrounding capital punishment, of course, but when discussing it on conceptual level, matters of personal or social perspective are less applicable. The real world is not that simple. Should the state be allowed to kill in my name? If "yes," what are the conditions? If "no," what are the exceptions? How are your conditions and exceptions better than my own? I know these are muddy waters, so let me illustrate with a few hypothetical questions;

Should a police officer be allowed, under certain circumstances, to shoot and kill a perp in the line of duty?
Should a soldier fighting in the state army be allowed to kill the nation's enemies in the event of war?
Should an executioner be allowed to kill someone deemed too dangerous to live?
Should a health care practitioner be allowed to kill a patient who wishes to die?

You may think that these are unrelated, but they really are not. They all pertain to the question of "when is it OK to take a human life?" Thus, your answer to these questions may need to be justified, and if you simply give an unconditional "Never," then should you be imprisoned for taking another's life in defence of others?

There are "yeah buts" here a-plenty, not the least in relation to criminal justice, so I think it's important that we identify our underlying principles before analysing this issue solely in terms of policy.

Personally, I don't have an easy time telling another culture what they ought and ought not perceive as a big enough threat to their society to take a human life, nor am I particularly well-equipped to argue that their way of valuing a human life is inferior to my own. All I can do, is provide my own cultural, political and philosophical perspective, and in that light... I don't perceive gays or witches or what have you as a threat to my society or my own way of life, and I respect their right to live and leave me alone. I don't want Iran to execute homosexuals for sexual relationships between consenting adults any more than I want Nigerian mobs to execute seemingly-random people for sorcery, but I also don't think my moral outrage will help stop, or even hinder the practice. If I was a part of the society in question, and I was many, it may have. I am not.

The second part of it I thought I'd mention is potentially "sneaky" media coverage.

I have not read the resolution - just the article T linked to, and having read it, it makes me wonder if The Independent may have cherry-picked one aspect of capital punishment from among many in order to generate clicks. If that be the case, then they are missing the point of the larger discussion, and in that case, I have no problem seeing why countries like the United States and China voted against it. They did not vote against condemning the execution of homosexuals - they voted against a larger proposal, of which it was a part. The question then is, how large a part was it? Because if it was just one among "dozens" of bullet points, then this article is what we nowadays call "fake news" as the thing they say was voted against is at best a part of what was actually voted against. Time for another of my infamous examples;

I propose that everyone must kill a puppy by the end of this year. As an amendment to my original proposal, I further propose increased research grants for cancer studies.

*after the vote*

How very DARE that pesky Tank vote against increased research grants for cancer studies?!

I'm not saying that this was a case of that, but in the current media climate, it's possible and maybe even likely.
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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty...
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 06:57:22 PM »
I wish the USA would just abolish the death penalty and get the State out of the business of executing its own citizens.  If someone really needs to be executed, they can be lured to the Saudi embassy and that will get the job done.

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Re: US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty...
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 05:47:50 PM »
Barbaric, but expected given Trump's administration. ::)
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Sandra Craft

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Re: US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty...
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 11:10:47 PM »
I wish the USA would just abolish the death penalty and get the State out of the business of executing its own citizens.  If someone really needs to be executed, they can be lured to the Saudi embassy and that will get the job done.

Me too.  I'm not unilaterally opposed to killing people, there are circumstances when there's just no way around it, but I am opposed to judicial death sentences, given the frequency of mistakes.
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Re: US votes against UN resolution condemning gay sex death penalty...
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2018, 11:54:08 PM »
Let me decide.