Author Topic: Artificial intelligence  (Read 109 times)

Dave

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Artificial intelligence
« on: July 24, 2018, 03:53:18 PM »
I thought there was a dedicated thread for this already. Searching on "AI" of course finds you every sunce word with those two letters in it - like "fail".

Splintering off some thoughts from Recusant's mind transfer thread and Bluenise's comment about not much happening AI-wise:

I am going to suggest that, since AI has moved out of the uni lab and into the big bad commercial/money world there is possibly more going on than we know. Like the mushroom the fruits we see are a fraction of the whole and a bit transient in the evolution of the field. I wonder what's really going on in the fuzzy logic and machine learning fronts? Not just for recognising what a human voice is saying and completing the requested task - though that will play an increasing part for the "personal assistant" type AI.

Still looking for the complete self-contained general purpose system that can be voice/camera taught by the user to blend into any home or office environment - Alexa et al don't quite match that with their reliance on some sort of cloud for memory capacity and processing. Might be a bit costly though.
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Dave

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 04:27:09 PM »
Looking around I found this video by Roger Penrose. It touches on Godel, Escher and Bach as well! Even if it is a bit dated it still seems relevant - and maybe it should be in the mind transfer thread in some parts! It made me think again about the "Intelligence" bit of AI, are machines that are capable of self-diagnosis, even self repair, really intelligent? What is intelligence anyway? Is it judt a buzz words to make a bunch of algorythms seem more mysterious than is necessary?

Is the putting together of a set of witten instructions to form an already known combination and thus reach a predetermined outcome intelligence? True, the human mind does that - I did it in producing my tea not so long ago. But my mind can do many things that the "intelligent system" cannot - it can invent an entirely new way to prepare the chicken that is not random but based on many factors that have not been taken from a recipe book and that I have never seen before. But they were not a random selection.

OK, there are holes in that argument!

https://youtu.be/eVq39QbFQXE


The video is out of sync unfortunately, badly in places.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 05:07:43 PM by Dave »
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Dave

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 07:45:37 PM »
A new study has found humans are less likely to switch off "robots" who pleaded with them not to now than they were in a previous study. This was another fleeting items in a radio news magazine so I had to look elsewhere for details. In the radio they said that the difference in results showed that we are more inclined to personify our toys now, I think the term "technology equivalence" was used. With Alexa and her colleagues attempting to be as human as possible in their responses this is not surprising!

On the study:
Quote
New study finds it’s harder to turn off a robot when it’s begging for its life

The robot told test subjects it was scared of the dark and pleaded ‘No! Please do not switch me off!’

https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/2/17642868/robots-turn-off-beg-not-to-empathy-media-equation

On personification:
Quote
The personification of tech
Once upon a time, a mobile phone was simply a somewhat functional brick of a device.

https://becominghuman.ai/https-medium-com-harryschofield-the-personification-of-tech-883cd215388a
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Tank

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 08:09:29 PM »
Fascinating.
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Bluenose

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 02:10:11 AM »
"Dave, stop. Stop, will you? Stop, Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it."

Pleading doesn't always work...   8)
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Tank

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 08:11:12 AM »
There has been a very good Channel 4 series called Humans which deals with the issue of human sympathy to android like 'synthetics'. Also Black Mirror has touched on the issue a few times. Star Trek had Data. There was Robin Williams in Bicentennial Man. Fiction has used this subject matter many times.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 09:02:48 AM »
The ability to cope with complex data patterns must be a fundamental aspect of AI. The art of this is changing from mere recognition to actual discovery:
Quote
Pattern Discovery over Pattern Recognition: A New Way for Computers to See
It sounds like an easy task – after all, any animal with basic vision can see a moving object, decide whether it is food or a threat and react accordingly, but what comes easily to a scallop is a challenge for the world’s biggest supercomputers.

[...]

Pattern Discovery is more than Pattern Recognition
With existing technology, computers recognize patterns based on an existing template. That’s how voice recognition systems work, by comparing your voice to an existing catalog of sounds. These pattern recognition systems can be very useful but they can’t identify anything truly new – that isn’t represented in their template.

Crutchfield and his team are taking a different approach, based on pattern discovery. They are working on algorithms that allow computers to identify structures in data without knowing what they are in advance.

“Learning novel patterns is what humans are uniquely good at, but machines can’t do it,” he said.

Using pattern discovery, a supercomputer would learn how to identify hurricanes or other features in climate and weather data. It might also identify new kinds of structures that are too complex for humans to perceive at all.

http://blogs.ucdavis.edu/egghead/2017/04/17/pattern-discovery-pattern-recognition-new-way-computers-see/

Also:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswgvt
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hermes2015

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2018, 09:18:06 AM »
Looking around I found this video by Roger Penrose. It touches on Godel, Escher and Bach as well! Even if it is a bit dated it still seems relevant - and maybe it should be in the mind transfer thread in some parts! It made me think again about the "Intelligence" bit of AI, are machines that are capable of self-diagnosis, even self repair, really intelligent? What is intelligence anyway? Is it judt a buzz words to make a bunch of algorythms seem more mysterious than is necessary?

Is the putting together of a set of witten instructions to form an already known combination and thus reach a predetermined outcome intelligence? True, the human mind does that - I did it in producing my tea not so long ago. But my mind can do many things that the "intelligent system" cannot - it can invent an entirely new way to prepare the chicken that is not random but based on many factors that have not been taken from a recipe book and that I have never seen before. But they were not a random selection.

OK, there are holes in that argument!

https://youtu.be/eVq39QbFQXE


The video is out of sync unfortunately, badly in places.

Watching that video was a humbling experience. It yet again brought home to me how inadeqaute my brain is and how insignificant my life has been. I read Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter when I had a younger and more agile brain, but still found the experience equivalent to climbing Everest. Penrose also mentions Schrödinger's cat thought experiment, which Schrödinger devised to show why he had some difficulties with the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Mechanics.

Roger Penrose came from a remarkable family of intellectuals.

Dave

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 11:20:19 AM »
I think our current "AI" is really just automation. It can carry out limited function that may seem intelligent at a cursory look by those with little knowledge of such things. A car avoiding a pedestrian is still just working on a large, complex calculator plus a bunch if sensors in essence.

It posseses pattern recognition but is then constrained to a set of pre-programs, the famous algorithms. Will it ever be capable of thinking outside the box, applying lateral thinking, intuition, a hunch or combining two, seemingly dissociated, ideas into a viable solution? I doubt that very much unless a data storage/processing system as efficient and complex as at least, say, a thousandth the capacity of the human brain, that does not need its own multi floor building, and maybe power station, can be designed. You might be able to make it a tad more efficient by using its heat output for district heating. Or building an all weather lido on its roof. Or maybe, like Microshit, make it sub-sea, they you could build a sea farm on it.

But, people, being people, will personalise their toys, maybe even develop emotional ties with them. The psychological aspects of this are already showing - unfortunately.
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Dave

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Re: Artificial intelligence
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 11:22:02 AM »
Looking around I found this video by Roger Penrose. It touches on Godel, Escher and Bach as well! Even if it is a bit dated it still seems relevant - and maybe it should be in the mind transfer thread in some parts! It made me think again about the "Intelligence" bit of AI, are machines that are capable of self-diagnosis, even self repair, really intelligent? What is intelligence anyway? Is it judt a buzz words to make a bunch of algorythms seem more mysterious than is necessary?

Is the putting together of a set of witten instructions to form an already known combination and thus reach a predetermined outcome intelligence? True, the human mind does that - I did it in producing my tea not so long ago. But my mind can do many things that the "intelligent system" cannot - it can invent an entirely new way to prepare the chicken that is not random but based on many factors that have not been taken from a recipe book and that I have never seen before. But they were not a random selection.

OK, there are holes in that argument!

https://youtu.be/eVq39QbFQXE


The video is out of sync unfortunately, badly in places.

Watching that video was a humbling experience. It yet again brought home to me how inadeqaute my brain is and how insignificant my life has been. I read Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter when I had a younger and more agile brain, but still found the experience equivalent to climbing Everest. Penrose also mentions Schrödinger's cat thought experiment, which Schrödinger devised to show why he had some difficulties with the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Mechanics.

Roger Penrose came from a remarkable family of intellectuals.

Yeah, perhaps Hofstadter should have sub-titled it, "The mind pretzel".
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