Author Topic: Worth reading...and pondering  (Read 214 times)


Dragonia

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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 02:47:43 AM »
This makes so much sense to me.
Almost every mom I've known has tried to occupy their kids at something else while they were busy doing chores. Which I totally understand.
However, I saw firsthand the principle from the article played out in one sweet family. The mom, my friend, was so patient, she didn't stress out about messes, and she took her time with each activity. Her kids, from little tiny to teenagers, were happy to help her, watch her, have fun with it, just being with her and working together. This was many years ago and I tried to learn from her, but I just am a little more obsessive about certain things, but I tried.  :)
Kids really do deeply desire to just BE with their parents, interacting and doin' jobs together.
Heck, even for me now, it's more fun and motivating to do chores (especially yardwork) when the whole family is out helping. We like the feeling of getting something accomplished together.
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Dave

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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 03:41:49 AM »
Walking to the supermarket I watched three kids, maybe 12, 8 and 6, carrying bags and almost dancing along the path playing "Simon Says" - taking turns to be "Simon" but obviously lead by the eldest. And thoroughly enjoying themselves. They were going to the recycling area, we did not have kerbside collection then.

I was so happy with the sight that I sort of carefully followed, paralleled, them. I can only think they had parents that encouraged that sort of attitude. I am always moved by such things - and by the very opposite that I see so often.
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jumbojak

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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 03:46:08 AM »
It seems like common sense to me, but then again I don't have kids and likely never will. If someone wants to help let them help if they can. Pushing them away would just make them less likely to help later.
 

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Arturo

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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2018, 06:44:43 AM »
I've been telling this to people for years.

Nobody believes me.

I guess they can call me lazy if they want, I'm just a guy in someone else's country that was established on my land.

Actually, to be frank, the only reason I stopped being so productive is because my Dad remarried to a white lady. And she wasn't willing to budge on anything. It was like she had OCD. I would do the chores, but not on her watch. So she got upset. Which turned me off from doing anything she wanted. And then her son moved in and we shared rooms. He was a slob. Which made me want to be a slob. So I stopped picking up after him. And I've been living that way ever since.

Are you seeing a pattern here? My Dad and I put it like this - the more you hang around people, the more you act like they do. It's unavoidable. That's backed up by psychology. So when you have someone who IS productive and has kids, the kids naturally want to help. And the best thing you can do for that child is to let them be themselves and help you. Or else you stifle their positive development.

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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 07:58:15 AM »
I've been telling this to people for years.

Nobody believes me.

I guess they can call me lazy if they want, I'm just a guy in someone else's country that was established on my land.

Actually, to be frank, the only reason I stopped being so productive is because my Dad remarried to a white lady. And she wasn't willing to budge on anything. It was like she had OCD. I would do the chores, but not on her watch. So she got upset. Which turned me off from doing anything she wanted. And then her son moved in and we shared rooms. He was a slob. Which made me want to be a slob. So I stopped picking up after him. And I've been living that way ever since.

Are you seeing a pattern here? My Dad and I put it like this - the more you hang around people, the more you act like they do. It's unavoidable. That's backed up by psychology. So when you have someone who IS productive and has kids, the kids naturally want to help. And the best thing you can do for that child is to let them be themselves and help you. Or else you stifle their positive development.
Then why didn't he improve? He was hanging around with you wasn't he? Your assertion is not backed up by the facts.
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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 02:47:13 PM »
Seems like the kind of stuff that should be common sense. The bit about the parents working with their children I think is very important. Pretty sure that the four things listed though should all be considered important.

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Arturo

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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 03:19:36 PM »
I've been telling this to people for years.

Nobody believes me.

I guess they can call me lazy if they want, I'm just a guy in someone else's country that was established on my land.

Actually, to be frank, the only reason I stopped being so productive is because my Dad remarried to a white lady. And she wasn't willing to budge on anything. It was like she had OCD. I would do the chores, but not on her watch. So she got upset. Which turned me off from doing anything she wanted. And then her son moved in and we shared rooms. He was a slob. Which made me want to be a slob. So I stopped picking up after him. And I've been living that way ever since.

Are you seeing a pattern here? My Dad and I put it like this - the more you hang around people, the more you act like they do. It's unavoidable. That's backed up by psychology. So when you have someone who IS productive and has kids, the kids naturally want to help. And the best thing you can do for that child is to let them be themselves and help you. Or else you stifle their positive development.
Then why didn't he improve? He was hanging around with you wasn't he? Your assertion is not backed up by the facts.

Ah you mean her kid. He was already well past the point of being a toddler at that point. I did try to make him improve though but it was already too late.

In fact I'm reading the rest of the article now, I stopped when it mentioned toddlers. It's sincerely very strange to hear that phrase
Quote
"When my toddler was doing the dishes, at the beginning, the water was all over the place, but I would allow my son to the dishes because that's how he learned"
Because I and my Father would often use that same exact phrase although we are not and never have visited the tribes we are belonging too. So it's nice to see that something survived.

And it's difficult to hear as well because we no longer say that. I am actually flabbergasted that I was put in charge of helping my kid brother but then that privilege was revoked much like how they describe the Northern Moms in this article. They wanted me to help him (or help in general) but as soon as they saw something they did not like, they took that privilege away. So that's really something I miss when I went back to see my grandmother the other day because she trusts people to do things like they explained in this article. But it's difficult to get into that mindset because I've been so estranged from it. The phone rang and I actually wanted to go pick up the phone but she asked my cousin to do it so I sat down, rather than just do so anyway since I was the one already going for it. Which is what I should of done, but should have and actually doing are two separate thing. <<<Which is probably the lesson I learned after living with the step family for so long. I could not blame my step brother's parents for raising him the way they did because they did only what they knew. And a good friend of mine who is now dead put things like this "once something has started, you cannot stop it." And that might seem counter-intuitive, but it goes right along with the saying that you cannot out grow your history. And we see that with the problems the United States has now in foreign and abroad.

Sorry I'm turning this into a pity post but I'm actually very disappointed in the way the United States is because of that now that I read this because I do not like they way they made me become. I wish I was born somewhere else. I'm actually going into a dark place thinking about this because there is another story I could get into when I tell you about the Apache Tear-Drop necklaces - the other tribe that I am decent from. And I do have one of these. So it's very....concerning that I have this knowing the story now. And I know that people say that they always have a choice, but I wonder about that. Do we really have a choice given the barrads that we have in society. The fact of the matter is, we are a product of our environment and the past. I already feel dead on the inside. And dead on the outside as well since there is nobody around to help. And I'm difficult to live with so I'm told. And I suspect that people are/were drawn to me because I make them feel empowered but I just...I don't have it in me. Not in the way that they want. And society does not either. Not this one. I stopped telling people my grievances about this because they were so new to the idea that I could not receive help from them and they knew it. They just didn't have the heart to tell me and left. So sorry about this. I'm just like one of the Americans now.

If I could put this whole idea down into one simple phrase, it would be to let people be themselves. And encourage them to do so.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:52:28 PM by Arturo »

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Arturo

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Re: Worth reading...and pondering
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 04:32:58 PM »
Actually I take back a lot of what I just said. My younger step brother did end up becoming more productive. More productive than me even. He stole my destiny. But I suppose that I did send a message and that's all I can ask for. He does understand now the value of productivity.

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     Just let people be themselves.
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