Author Topic: The Ballad of St Tommy  (Read 1284 times)

Arturo

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2018, 11:50:43 PM »
I've heard of this Tommy guy before. So far I can't see to putting him in a good light. They guy used mobs and intimidation against minorities and people who didn't agree with him. Getting jailed for contempt of court looks like the right call in this situation, because if his mob gets enough information, they could mess up the case that is getting tried in court.

The guy screamed for justice to be done, then when justice is getting done, he goes in and almost sabotages it. Either he did something stupid out of ignorance, or he is not genuinely after justice. I mean, it could be that he did that not for justice, but to get sympathy and support, and if it did derail the trial, then he could use that as a bonus to fool the feeble minded into thinking that the justice system failed. If the trial failed due to his actions, he would do very well, and by getting arrested easily tricked people call him "brave" so he still does well.

Then that video. Classic manipulation tactics there. Straw men abound and the tried and true "taking a piece or two of something true and mixing it with bullshit" that works so well on people who limit their investigations when they hear what they already agree with.

I'll admit that it worked with me when a person was speaking about evolution and that evolution was nonsense. They spoke about evolution as if it were not evolution and that confused me because I don't study that enough to know my facts right off hand. But they used it to try and upset anyone who believes that science is true and that their stance (which was the not called evolution but really evolution stance) was the correct one. Apologetics really like to use that against people. I might say that they are the ones who made it the most visible.
The tactics are quite effective, and unfortunately they don't only work on dumb people. They work on everyone. They work on me. Which is why we need to be able to identify the tactics and fallacies, understand how they work, and point out when other people use them.

The fact that someone went out of their way to make that shit up, AND research their bullshit and all the correct factual points, then come up with all the comebacks in their head says a lot about their character....and they're kind of a piece of shit. Nah I take that back, they are actually a piece of shit. Probably some sort of sociopath.

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Davin

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2018, 03:06:21 PM »
I've heard of this Tommy guy before. So far I can't see to putting him in a good light. They guy used mobs and intimidation against minorities and people who didn't agree with him. Getting jailed for contempt of court looks like the right call in this situation, because if his mob gets enough information, they could mess up the case that is getting tried in court.

The guy screamed for justice to be done, then when justice is getting done, he goes in and almost sabotages it. Either he did something stupid out of ignorance, or he is not genuinely after justice. I mean, it could be that he did that not for justice, but to get sympathy and support, and if it did derail the trial, then he could use that as a bonus to fool the feeble minded into thinking that the justice system failed. If the trial failed due to his actions, he would do very well, and by getting arrested easily tricked people call him "brave" so he still does well.

Then that video. Classic manipulation tactics there. Straw men abound and the tried and true "taking a piece or two of something true and mixing it with bullshit" that works so well on people who limit their investigations when they hear what they already agree with.

I'll admit that it worked with me when a person was speaking about evolution and that evolution was nonsense. They spoke about evolution as if it were not evolution and that confused me because I don't study that enough to know my facts right off hand. But they used it to try and upset anyone who believes that science is true and that their stance (which was the not called evolution but really evolution stance) was the correct one. Apologetics really like to use that against people. I might say that they are the ones who made it the most visible.
The tactics are quite effective, and unfortunately they don't only work on dumb people. They work on everyone. They work on me. Which is why we need to be able to identify the tactics and fallacies, understand how they work, and point out when other people use them.

The fact that someone went out of their way to make that shit up, AND research their bullshit and all the correct factual points, then come up with all the comebacks in their head says a lot about their character....and they're kind of a piece of shit. Nah I take that back, they are actually a piece of shit. Probably some sort of sociopath.
It might not be that person, that person could just be repeating what they heard from someone else or they could be stuck thinking the world is a certain way and tries to warp reality to match what they think the world is. The tactics also work in a way that they are mostly transferable to other people so long as they also refuse to honestly research it. I mean, he could also be a piece of shit because he is intentionally misleading, but like with religion, I don't think every one that falls into the trap is a horrible person even if they perpetuate horrible things. If the world really were as they claim it is, they wouldn't be that bad, at least not everyone.

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Arturo

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2018, 03:23:06 PM »
Yeah that's true. I forgot to mention that in my post. Sometimes people just repeat what they hear.

 I just meant the original person who came up with that tactic, they had to be a shitty person. And if someone were really so set in their belief like that, that they had to warp reality to fit their beliefs in, then they would actually be delusional. And some delusional people are shitty people. Especially manipulators like Tommy Robinson here. You can be delusional and manipulative at the same time, but it's pretty rare. Sociopathy is pretty rare (or so I have been told).

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Tom62

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2018, 06:23:38 PM »
Basically, the police was waiting for Robinson to make a public appearance, so that they could get rid of him. He has been a pain in the arse for the "powers that be" and any silly excuse would do the trick to lock him away for a long time. Any other reporter on the scene, would have just receive a message from the police, like "Sorry Sir, but you are not allowed to film here".

Now you may think about Robinson what ever you like. I don't agree with his methods, nor with everything he said and done (even Robinson himself is ashamed of some of the things he done in the past); but the way he was treated brings great shame on Britain's leaders, Britain's law and British media. Locking someone away for his political views, without a proper trail; combined with a full media ban; closely resembles 1984,  the Third Reich and the old Soviet regime.

Robinson is the ideal scapegoat (hooligan and working class background) for anyone who doesn't want to deal with the real problems of radical Islam. It is like the "good" old days of killing the messenger, because he brings bad news. Lets just hope that, unlike old times, Robinson survives his time in prison.
 

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2018, 07:47:50 PM »
This will probably be the point when people start analyzing me and disagreeing with me but be careful with that line of thought Tom. Phrases like "the powers that be" are phrases that were used by communists during the communist revolution and reflect the ideology that is used to undermine and grab power and possessions that communists are so well known for doing. It's a dangerous line of thought that, that takes you.

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Davin

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2018, 08:42:36 PM »
Basically, the police was waiting for Robinson to make a public appearance, so that they could get rid of him. He has been a pain in the arse for the "powers that be" and any silly excuse would do the trick to lock him away for a long time. Any other reporter on the scene, would have just receive a message from the police, like "Sorry Sir, but you are not allowed to film here".
Were other reporters there against court orders? This is a misrepresentation that appears to be an intentional attempt to mislead.

Quote from: Tom62
Robinson is the ideal scapegoat (hooligan and working class background) for anyone who doesn't want to deal with the real problems of radical Islam. It is like the "good" old days of killing the messenger, because he brings bad news. Lets just hope that, unlike old times, Robinson survives his time in prison.
Or maybe, and I think this is the ticket, his message is flawed and is rightly discarded as such. We look at his message, find the fallacies and dishonest tactics, and discard it. If he corrected those flaws, the message would be better received. Let's hope that more people discard such irrational messages in the future.

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2018, 10:11:29 PM »
Basically, the police was waiting for Robinson to make a public appearance, so that they could get rid of him. He has been a pain in the arse for the "powers that be" and any silly excuse would do the trick to lock him away for a long time. Any other reporter on the scene, would have just receive a message from the police, like "Sorry Sir, but you are not allowed to film here".

Now you may think about Robinson what ever you like. I don't agree with his methods, nor with everything he said and done (even Robinson himself is ashamed of some of the things he done in the past); but the way he was treated brings great shame on Britain's leaders, Britain's law and British media. Locking someone away for his political views, without a proper trail; combined with a full media ban; closely resembles 1984,  the Third Reich and the old Soviet regime.

Robinson is the ideal scapegoat (hooligan and working class background) for anyone who doesn't want to deal with the real problems of radical Islam. It is like the "good" old days of killing the messenger, because he brings bad news. Lets just hope that, unlike old times, Robinson survives his time in prison.

Did you read the linked piece in the OP? If so, do you dispute what is written there?
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Tom62

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2018, 05:16:02 PM »
Did you read the linked piece in the OP? If so, do you dispute what is written there?

Yes, I did read the linked piece in the OP. I agree with most parts of it, but find it at the same time insulting ("knuckle-dragging cheerleaders", "racists-in-arms" ?) and biased.
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2018, 06:32:46 PM »
It appears to me, from reading that piece and other articles about this topic, that "Robinson" was not so much targetted as he went to the precincts of that court with the intention of provoking a reaction from the authorities. No legitimate reporter would have been allowed to do what he was doing and he presumably knew that very well, having been given a suspended sentence for the same type of action less than a year ago. He manipulated the system and got what he wanted: publicity and sympathy.

We can speculate on whether a legitimate reporter would have been taken into custody, but I question any assumption that a legitimate reporter publicly breaking the law in this context would merely be given a polite warning by police. The judge in this case issued a postponement order, the police would be aware of that. It's their duty to enforce the law, and they know it wouldn't look good if they were seen to be giving preferential treatment to somebody such as a BBC reporter, after "Robinson" was in the news not so long ago for violating a previous postponement order.

As for the insulting language the author used, given the evidence that at least a sizeable percentage of the EDL and those who support "Robinson" are in fact white supremacist thugs, I'm not particularly bothered. People of good will with legitimate concerns about Islam and radical Muslims who wish to join them in their crusade should think carefully about who they'd be helping out.
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2018, 06:56:55 PM »
Hmm, we could almost be writing about the violent attention seeking antics of the suffragettes. At the time they acted and were treated very badly for a cause that was not universally supported, certainly not by the "establishment, but eventually evolved into becoming the "right thing." I like to think that I would have been a suffragist, the less noisy and violent wing of the movement. Men did take part alongside the women.

I do not like Robinson and his tactics, despite any good points he may push.But if Robinson had a valid point, worthy of pursuing, doing so would not necessarily indicate tacit acceptance of the man's ideology. Even the most evil use good stuff as a vehicle to push the crap out to the gullible, helps them seem more legit and rational.

Would not want to share a platform with him but might take some of his ideas, cherry picked of course, to follow up. But within the stretchiest limits of the law.
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Davin

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2018, 03:51:32 PM »
EDL march, hard to see it as anything but a bunch of thugs trying to intimidate minorities.

EDL again.
Take note of the freeze peach advocates when EDL folk are saying that people should be jailed if they insult a soldier. Bunch of hypocrites.
Also note that the EDL are posting in several places to kill all Muslims in the UK.

EDL attacking a forum because some they don't agree with was speaking there.

There are a ton more. EDL is filled with cowards who rely on large groups rampaging about peaceful people. There are some who have attacked DEL though, but if there were a score being kept, EDL is far worse. There was even ridiculous video posted by "Robinson" where he was attacking people at a McDonald's that looks laughably staged. But I'm sure his supporters turned off their skepticism because it was a video that supported their already held conclusions.

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Tom62

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2018, 06:10:36 PM »
There are also tons of very violent Antifa-, Muslim- immigrants and -refugees videos available. On this "battlefield" you have cowards, morons and despicable persons on both sides.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:24:15 PM by Tom62 »
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2018, 06:11:52 PM »
I am all for civils roghts ans freedom of spe3ch but I cannot help but think dpecial services anti-terrorist techniques might apply here. Zip lock every person and let them justify their presence later.

Not allowed to do thst here, they have to be witnessed committing an offence to be spprehended - though the definition of what constitutes an offence broadens by the decade. Offensive language in a public place can be starters,

But, not enough spent on the police to hold and process loads of people so . . .
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2018, 06:19:20 PM »
There are also tons of very violent Antifa-, Muslim- immigrants and -refugees videos available.

Can we just agree all these overtly violent people are anti-social/criminal shits and treat them all the same?

If they have a valid point let them gather the evidence and learn to fight for it without recourse to violence. Let them appeal to the nation. Give them the support they need to do so, providing they accept the will of the majority.

Bugger, I am becoming an idealist!

I have very little time or sympathy for either side.
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Tom62

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2018, 06:30:03 PM »
^I fully agree.
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