Author Topic: The Ballad of St Tommy  (Read 1320 times)

Recusant

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The Ballad of St Tommy
« on: May 30, 2018, 11:14:53 PM »
Unless people in the US and elsewhere follow right-wing media, they may not have heard of this malignant clown and his supposed persecution by the horrible, horrible, British justice system. In the UK it has got somewhat more play, I think.

"What on earth happened to poor Tommy Robinson? 10 Things You Should Know." | The Secret Barrister

Quote
It can now be reported that Tommy Robinson, the former leader of the English Defence League, convicted fraudster, sometime-football hooligan and self-reinvented free speech advocate, was on Friday 25 May 2018 imprisoned for 13 months for contempt of court after livestreaming a broadcast, including footage of participants in a criminal trial, outside Leeds Crown Court.

Some people will have seen reference to this on social media; others may have had the plight of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon – to use his real name – drawn to their attention by the hordes of protestors storming London over the May bank holiday weekend. But there has not, until today, been mainstream coverage of the case due to a reporting restriction – what is known as a “postponement order” – that forbade publication of these facts until after the conclusion of the trial upon which he was purporting to “report”.

While, as we’ll see below, the reasons for the postponement order appear sound, the consequence of preventing fair and accurate reporting by responsible journalists was that there was no factual counterpoint to the selective and inaccurate details of Yaxley-Lennon’s situation that were inevitably flooded through social media by his knuckle-dragging cheerleaders, not least his racists-in-arms across the pond. Thus sprung a (largely unchallenged and unchallengeable) narrative of Tommy The Brave being arrested outside court for no reason and imprisoned in secret by the deep state, culminating in petitions for his release and a Nazi-themed march on Downing Street.

[Continues . . .]
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 12:26:25 AM »
Man I just had a conversation about freedom of speech with another nutcase today. Was pretty terrible. It came to the mind that I was on the side that you cannot have freedom without restriction. But he didn't want to admit he was wrong but still adjusted his view, but unconsciously now that I think about it because afterward we mentioned how the constitution restricts the government from encroaching on freedom. And then he goes onto say that rules will always be a function of society. But he didn't want to admit that he changed his mind. But that's okay.

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Dave

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 06:19:48 AM »
I vagueley remember hearing it mentioned once.
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 06:45:05 AM »
I've been following Tommy Robinson case for quite some time. Your can find a very decent biography of Tommy Robinson here on Wikipedia. I don't see him as a clown or nutcase, but a more as a very brave guy, who is standing up against the crazy fundamental Islamists (the ones who demand Sharia law and other barbaric rules) and Muslim grooming gangs. These highly organised gangs have been operating unchallenged for over 20 years, raping and pimping non-Muslim underage schoolgirls who are used as sex slaves and sometimes tortured or killed. No-one dare to say or do a thing about it, because of political correctness and fear of being called a racist or Islamophobe. Robinson of course did report these bastards and suffered the consequences from it.

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 08:14:57 AM »
I've been following Tommy Robinson case for quite some time. Your can find a very decent biography of Tommy Robinson here on Wikipedia. I don't see him as a clown or nutcase, but a more as a very brave guy, who is standing up against the crazy fundamental Islamists (the ones who demand Sharia law and other barbaric rules) and Muslim grooming gangs. These highly organised gangs have been operating unchallenged for over 20 years, raping and pimping non-Muslim underage schoolgirls who are used as sex slaves and sometimes tortured or killed. No-one dare to say or do a thing about it, because of political correctness and fear of being called a racist or Islamophobe. Robinson of course did report these bastards and suffered the consequences from it.


I can mainly agree with what he says, child groomers and abusers should be pursued and treated in exactly the same way regardless of their race, belief or status. Should one group be highlighted over others? Are Islamic perpetrators worse than any other pedophilic individuals or groups?  How many "ranking" white people have been given covert protection over the years (and that is ignoring priests)?

Picking one group out and giving them special attention can easily be seen as some kind of "ism". When he says similsr things about priests, coaches, teachers etc of all types and draws no line between them; when he does not attempt to sway public opinion by grandstanding . . . Perhaps he will get more serious sttention.

At the moment I see him out on the right wing and that will probably gain him increasingly more extreme ideological followers - the gay community could be their next target. Even if his intentions are good, maybe stretching the law a bit, his more extreme followers will probably not be under his control. It has happened before.

And, as for Wiki bios: investigate the suthor as much as the subject - I have seen so many obviiusly written with an agenda, with bias pro- and anti-.
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 01:37:28 PM »
I understand the concern for the fear of racism or being called racist when dealing with these issues like this. But people should not cast that idea aside because it can and does happen. Example, my cousin went to a school and the year after he left there was a guy running around campus with a knife saying to kill all the Mexicans and wearing a Trump shirt. The guy had already graduated several years earlier.

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 02:17:07 PM »
Sonetimes I think that I am a "culturalist." If a group's culture requires, say, someone shouting from a tower or ringing bells I am agin it if it disturbs anyone else. The people being shouted or rang at may be OK individually as neighbours and workmates and their colour and place of origin has nothing to do with it. If their personal culture requires havingvthe stereo on flst out they are definitely not on my "like list". If tge music is rap or electronica, "thump, thump, jangle, jangle, thump, thump, ooo,woo, thump, thump" stuff they are doubly damned!

If there is a cultural element in any action that is at least anti-social or possibly illegal then that culture needs to modify for the greater good or go somewhere that it is acceptable. On another forum we had a bloke constantly complaining about the British education system (he had some valid points) and the lack of Islamic schools. I suggested that he emigrate to a country that could fully accodomdate his needs. He did not like my suggestion. Though, to be honest, I did add something like, "(if you can find one where the lives of your family will not be at risk and you are willing to give up the benefits of things like the NHS etc)".  He stopped posting for a long time after that. "Iffy" someone.
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 03:47:50 PM »
I've heard of this Tommy guy before. So far I can't see to putting him in a good light. They guy used mobs and intimidation against minorities and people who didn't agree with him. Getting jailed for contempt of court looks like the right call in this situation, because if his mob gets enough information, they could mess up the case that is getting tried in court.

The guy screamed for justice to be done, then when justice is getting done, he goes in and almost sabotages it. Either he did something stupid out of ignorance, or he is not genuinely after justice. I mean, it could be that he did that not for justice, but to get sympathy and support, and if it did derail the trial, then he could use that as a bonus to fool the feeble minded into thinking that the justice system failed. If the trial failed due to his actions, he would do very well, and by getting arrested easily tricked people call him "brave" so he still does well.

Then that video. Classic manipulation tactics there. Straw men abound and the tried and true "taking a piece or two of something true and mixing it with bullshit" that works so well on people who limit their investigations when they hear what they already agree with.

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 04:08:55 PM »
The linked piece in the OP explains the basis of his sentence. He'd engaged in the same tactic at a previous trial and had received a suspended sentence with an explicit warning that if he pulled the same stunt again the sentence would be imposed on top of whatever sentence he got for the subsequent violation. He knew perfectly well what he was doing--it was nothing but a publicity stunt to rouse his supporters and gain sympathy from the gullible.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2018, 04:46:50 PM »
The linked piece in the OP explains the basis of his sentence. He'd engaged in the same tactic at a previous trial and had received a suspended sentence with an explicit warning that if he pulled the same stunt again the sentence would be imposed on top of whatever sentence he got for the subsequent violation. He knew perfectly well what he was doing--it was nothing but a publicity stunt to rouse his supporters and gain sympathy from the gullible.

That is the main danger, the rabble rousing. There has been a history of incompetence and conivance in dealing with cases of abuse and one has to hope that arses have been kicked. Any person in authority who fails to act on reports or buries evidence should suffer the same punshment. But stirring it into street action is only going to make matters far worse.

It will inevitably spread beyond child abuse and there will be retaliation in both directions. Ex-ISIS members are bound to get back in by some means to add more violence. Terrorism has no colour, race or creed.
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2018, 07:22:04 PM »
Sonetimes I think that I am a "culturalist." If a group's culture requires, say, someone shouting from a tower or ringing bells I am agin it if it disturbs anyone else. The people being shouted or rang at may be OK individually as neighbours and workmates and their colour and place of origin has nothing to do with it. If their personal culture requires havingvthe stereo on flst out they are definitely not on my "like list". If tge music is rap or electronica, "thump, thump, jangle, jangle, thump, thump, ooo,woo, thump, thump" stuff they are doubly damned!

If there is a cultural element in any action that is at least anti-social or possibly illegal then that culture needs to modify for the greater good or go somewhere that it is acceptable. On another forum we had a bloke constantly complaining about the British education system (he had some valid points) and the lack of Islamic schools. I suggested that he emigrate to a country that could fully accodomdate his needs. He did not like my suggestion. Though, to be honest, I did add something like, "(if you can find one where the lives of your family will not be at risk and you are willing to give up the benefits of things like the NHS etc)".  He stopped posting for a long time after that. "Iffy" someone.

I guess that's a different situation where you are. Here America always boasts it's "freedom" and then when someone says something critical of the US, they say those who don't like it should leave. But that again goes back to what I said about restrictions being put in place to preserve freedom and how the constitution admits that. But other people have values just like us, they may not be the values we hold, and they do love our country, and that is why they are here. But it's admittedly not perfect. Anyone who thinks that is sick. And then there is the whole stolen land thing...

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2018, 07:26:32 PM »
I've heard of this Tommy guy before. So far I can't see to putting him in a good light. They guy used mobs and intimidation against minorities and people who didn't agree with him. Getting jailed for contempt of court looks like the right call in this situation, because if his mob gets enough information, they could mess up the case that is getting tried in court.

The guy screamed for justice to be done, then when justice is getting done, he goes in and almost sabotages it. Either he did something stupid out of ignorance, or he is not genuinely after justice. I mean, it could be that he did that not for justice, but to get sympathy and support, and if it did derail the trial, then he could use that as a bonus to fool the feeble minded into thinking that the justice system failed. If the trial failed due to his actions, he would do very well, and by getting arrested easily tricked people call him "brave" so he still does well.

Then that video. Classic manipulation tactics there. Straw men abound and the tried and true "taking a piece or two of something true and mixing it with bullshit" that works so well on people who limit their investigations when they hear what they already agree with.

I'll admit that it worked with me when a person was speaking about evolution and that evolution was nonsense. They spoke about evolution as if it were not evolution and that confused me because I don't study that enough to know my facts right off hand. But they used it to try and upset anyone who believes that science is true and that their stance (which was the not called evolution but really evolution stance) was the correct one. Apologetics really like to use that against people. I might say that they are the ones who made it the most visible.

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2018, 07:50:24 PM »
Sonetimes I think that I am a "culturalist." If a group's culture requires, say, someone shouting from a tower or ringing bells I am agin it if it disturbs anyone else. The people being shouted or rang at may be OK individually as neighbours and workmates and their colour and place of origin has nothing to do with it. If their personal culture requires havingvthe stereo on flst out they are definitely not on my "like list". If tge music is rap or electronica, "thump, thump, jangle, jangle, thump, thump, ooo,woo, thump, thump" stuff they are doubly damned!

If there is a cultural element in any action that is at least anti-social or possibly illegal then that culture needs to modify for the greater good or go somewhere that it is acceptable. On another forum we had a bloke constantly complaining about the British education system (he had some valid points) and the lack of Islamic schools. I suggested that he emigrate to a country that could fully accodomdate his needs. He did not like my suggestion. Though, to be honest, I did add something like, "(if you can find one where the lives of your family will not be at risk and you are willing to give up the benefits of things like the NHS etc)".  He stopped posting for a long time after that. "Iffy" someone.

I guess that's a different situation where you are. Here America always boasts it's "freedom" and then when someone says something critical of the US, they say those who don't like it should leave. But that again goes back to what I said about restrictions being put in place to preserve freedom and how the constitution admits that. But other people have values just like us, they may not be the values we hold, and they do love our country, and that is why they are here. But it's admittedly not perfect. Anyone who thinks that is sick. And then there is the whole stolen land thing...

Nothing wrong with critical speech here either, providing it is not libellous, breaks no laws (like reporting restriction to prevent guilty people getting off or innocent people publically exposed) and does not stir up  violence or hatred in public places. If your laws allow those then maybe that is why America is becoming an increasingly violent nation.
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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2018, 08:17:04 PM »
Sonetimes I think that I am a "culturalist." If a group's culture requires, say, someone shouting from a tower or ringing bells I am agin it if it disturbs anyone else. The people being shouted or rang at may be OK individually as neighbours and workmates and their colour and place of origin has nothing to do with it. If their personal culture requires havingvthe stereo on flst out they are definitely not on my "like list". If tge music is rap or electronica, "thump, thump, jangle, jangle, thump, thump, ooo,woo, thump, thump" stuff they are doubly damned!

If there is a cultural element in any action that is at least anti-social or possibly illegal then that culture needs to modify for the greater good or go somewhere that it is acceptable. On another forum we had a bloke constantly complaining about the British education system (he had some valid points) and the lack of Islamic schools. I suggested that he emigrate to a country that could fully accodomdate his needs. He did not like my suggestion. Though, to be honest, I did add something like, "(if you can find one where the lives of your family will not be at risk and you are willing to give up the benefits of things like the NHS etc)".  He stopped posting for a long time after that. "Iffy" someone.

I guess that's a different situation where you are. Here America always boasts it's "freedom" and then when someone says something critical of the US, they say those who don't like it should leave. But that again goes back to what I said about restrictions being put in place to preserve freedom and how the constitution admits that. But other people have values just like us, they may not be the values we hold, and they do love our country, and that is why they are here. But it's admittedly not perfect. Anyone who thinks that is sick. And then there is the whole stolen land thing...

Nothing wrong with critical speech here either, providing it is not libellous, breaks no laws (like reporting restriction to prevent guilty people getting off or innocent people publically exposed) and does not stir up  violence or hatred in public places. If your laws allow those then maybe that is why America is becoming an increasingly violent nation.

Stirring up violence is illegal, hatred is not. Could be said that what Trump said since whenever he started campaigning that it was words intended to incite violence. However, I think if you are running for president then that's a different story. But that is besides the point. When I said that "critical" opinions of the US were met with "get out", I meant more like "critical opinions of the US that are not the ones this party shares" and my Dad has said that often times. There will be people who have that stance and then go out and say that "you are the problem with this country". And if the problem is really social criticism, I guess it's okay as long as one side gets to have the social criticism. Because that's all it really boils down to when someone has a critique of the US. But the other side doesn't even know that they are having those same thoughts because they are so wrapped up in the illusion and never thought to think critically or analyze them self in such a way.

Example was a guy who said that "the problem people have with the USA are actually all in there head. They want to complain when they have it good until it's finally actually shit." But he doesn't realize that literally thousands of other people say that exact same thing. And he doesn't want to believe he is a communist. Either that or he doesn't know what communism is. And it goes back to how effective those tactics are the Davin gave because even I was subject to them before. And I didn't realize that they were being used until after the situation was over with.

So when it comes to politics, I know I am outgunned and outmatched. So I don't even try just so I can keep my mental health. I might give my two cents here or there but that's all I really ask for. I may ask for more in the future but for now I know that's all I require.

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Davin

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Re: The Ballad of St Tommy
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2018, 09:31:38 PM »
I've heard of this Tommy guy before. So far I can't see to putting him in a good light. They guy used mobs and intimidation against minorities and people who didn't agree with him. Getting jailed for contempt of court looks like the right call in this situation, because if his mob gets enough information, they could mess up the case that is getting tried in court.

The guy screamed for justice to be done, then when justice is getting done, he goes in and almost sabotages it. Either he did something stupid out of ignorance, or he is not genuinely after justice. I mean, it could be that he did that not for justice, but to get sympathy and support, and if it did derail the trial, then he could use that as a bonus to fool the feeble minded into thinking that the justice system failed. If the trial failed due to his actions, he would do very well, and by getting arrested easily tricked people call him "brave" so he still does well.

Then that video. Classic manipulation tactics there. Straw men abound and the tried and true "taking a piece or two of something true and mixing it with bullshit" that works so well on people who limit their investigations when they hear what they already agree with.

I'll admit that it worked with me when a person was speaking about evolution and that evolution was nonsense. They spoke about evolution as if it were not evolution and that confused me because I don't study that enough to know my facts right off hand. But they used it to try and upset anyone who believes that science is true and that their stance (which was the not called evolution but really evolution stance) was the correct one. Apologetics really like to use that against people. I might say that they are the ones who made it the most visible.
The tactics are quite effective, and unfortunately they don't only work on dumb people. They work on everyone. They work on me. Which is why we need to be able to identify the tactics and fallacies, understand how they work, and point out when other people use them.

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