Author Topic: Internet and government: data holding and use.  (Read 649 times)

Bad Penny II

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 01:33:28 PM »
The ability to collect data has always existed.  Companies, and the government have in my opinion always held a similar ability to do so.

How do you define always?
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Madbunny

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2018, 03:05:37 PM »
How do you define always?

Pretty self explanatory; always.  As long as you, a consumer or citizen are reliant on an outside agency to give you something, whether its a product, or citizenship that outside agency has the ability to collect information on you.  The effort it takes to really and truly mask your presence is increasingly more difficult which means that most people won't bother.  (see links I posted re: downloading your own data)

It can be as simple as purchasing history, or a record of birth.  The more that you do, or interact, the more opportunities for data collection exist.
Eventually patterns emerge.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2018, 08:00:52 PM »
Even in the pre-internet age data collection was a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesday_Book

Maybe this practice goes as far as recorded history?
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Dave

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2018, 08:16:29 PM »
Even in the pre-internet age data collection was a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesday_Book

Maybe this practice goes as far as recorded history?

I was thinking that myself, there have always been spies and informers watching others and reporting on their, assets, actions and behaviour. It is now just a matter of scale and availability mixed with the desire to monetise and make profit on the data. Plus the ability to expose and publicise those actions, the number of bloggers and (often self described) experts looking to make a reputation by digging up and exposing what the big boys are up to.

Intelligence analysts, police and reporters have done the same for a very long time.
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hermes2015

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2018, 05:36:38 AM »
Does anyone here use a VPN (Virtual Private Network)? If so, which one? Are they worth the monthly fee?

If have heard that NordVPN is one of the best.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2018, 11:35:29 AM »
Does anyone here use a VPN (Virtual Private Network)? If so, which one? Are they worth the monthly fee?

If have heard that NordVPN is one of the best.

I sometimes use free VPN to access content that has been blocked in my country, mostly Youtube vids. Also, Once I logged into HAF and was automatically banned (it seems a lot of spammer accounts use VPN).
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Asmodean

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2018, 02:23:31 PM »
We have a law coming into power (from the Union™, I think) called... Something germanically-communist-sounding.





...It's the abovementioned GDPR, actually. I'm sort of wirking towards that in a couple of ways. Long story short, it will place certain restrictions and obligations on domestic and foreign companies with regard to user data aggregation and use. For example, it outlines the requirement for consent for data aggregation and I believe some sort of data use related information availability guarantee (Informed consent)

It's a long and complicated story, and this law targets corporate data aggregation, not that executed by government agencies and personally, although I see some potential problems for the non-compliant businesses, I have my doubts as to this thing's effectiveness. As long as "informed consent" can be obtained by checking a box and clicking "submit," well... The public in general is just not that responsible. Who has the time to read them damned contracts after all?

Personally, I think data aggregation for the purpose of targeted advertising, for example, is good and well, as long as the aggregator uses it inhouse (for example by distributing ads from an ad ageny to their own subscriber and user base) Also, I have very little problem with governments keeping tabs on me, as long as they do not hamper my ability to express my opinions freely (I ought to do a massive Count Dankula rant here, I think. Didn't see one after a quick scan of new threads. For those who don't know what I'm on about, Bing yourself "nazi pug" and you will find the whole stupid controversy. It hits somewhat close to home, as we have quite recently lost a minister over some bullshit Facebook drama and some salty Communist fuck.)

Where was I? Ah, yes. I have no problem with data aggregation, provided that the aggregator offers an adequate level of security. Yes, there will always be leaks, and yes, the first commandment of the Interwebs stands stronger than ever (That being something along the lines of "If you don't want the whole world to learn something about you, don't put it on the Internet," the second commandment being "The Internet is only a dick if you are one") and overall, I think this is more a question of personal responsibility than legislation.

If you'll indulge my ramblings, I'd like to lift my gaze a generation. I've gotten so old over the years (*sigh*) that some friends my age have kids who are themselves teenagers now, and to the "better-off" among them, the Internet is almost like... Another body part. An integral part of "self," even. I am sort-of that way myself, but that is mostly due to my interests, career choices and battle arenas, so to speak. This puts me in the position of being able to say with some certainty that, even though the Internet never forgets, nor does it easily forgive, those particular kids will be just fine. They learn their lessons by skinning their digital knees, just like my generation learned ours by skinning our physical ones. Another thing those specific kids I'm talking about have in common, is parents who know enough to pull them back on the side walk as they attempt to run across the street right in front of a speeding LGV, metaphorically speaking. Thus, it's not they who eventually find themselves balls-deep in some sex drama or get their identities stolen or end up in court over some unintended consequences of actions they were not even aware of having taken. Speaking from a limited sample of my personal experience, those who do end up in such situations, are those who consider their digital life to be purely fun and games, or just don't give it much thought at all.

That right there, I think, is where much of the problem lies; that eternal thin line between overprotectiveness and recklessness, between scaremongering and negligence... That will not be adequately addressed by any legislation I can think of. What will certainly help though, is better education - not necessarilly for the youths specifically, but for my own generation and the pre-millenials. In the ever-changing tides of the Internet, we have to learn our lessons from skinning our virtual knees too, and be responsible enough not to jump into traffic without being armored with some knowledge of its dynamics, not to mention a nice multi-layered proxy.

What does it have to do with data collection? This; if you assume that the Internet never forgets, and further assume that, much like the Biblical God, it sees everything you do from the second you pick up a networked phone or sit down in front of your PC (Dick pix in particular. Much like the Biblical God, the Internet does like the bedroom stuff), then... That is your world. That is how it is and how it works. You may want to change it somehow, and even work towards those changes, but ignoring them does no more make them go away than ignoring my metaphorical LGV makes its impact less solid.

Now, to post it, read it and see if I have made a single coherent statement...  ;D

« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 02:59:52 PM by Asmodean »
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Dave

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2018, 02:53:28 PM »
Regarding advert targetting: I once set up a website after being attacked by a dog and finding advice etc hard to access. It was not anti-dog but very anti irresponsible dog owners. It also had a "road map" on how to navigate our small claims court system.

I signed up to Google ads which, of course, looked for keyword clues on the site. Every ad was dog related: food, toys, clothes, vets etc. Though mentioned several times on the site it managed to miss insurance and legal cover entirely. Or no-one was wanting to advertise those services to the doggy world I suppose.

Still, better than the postal "targetted advertising" (self-described) of pre-Internet days. I got a whole bundle of returnable post cards for garden tools, furniture and services, conservatories, double glazing, builders, electrical work and similar. I was living in a rented bedsitter at the tine . . . On the third lot I printed labels at work (on a Roneo, we only had line printers then) expkaining my circumstances, suggested they contact my lanlord  stuck them on and sent them off to the advertisers. Didn't get anymore.
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Asmodean

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Re: Internet and government: data holding and use.
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2018, 03:06:02 PM »
Ah, yes... The Good Old days.

Actually, the targeted advertising of today is somewhat different. Yes, banner ad providers will read your site's metadata, if not more, in order to provide what they see as most relevant ad content. However, today, they also use cookies and other data (Like your browsing patterns, for instance; where you've been, what you've up/downvoted, the last things you viewed or purchased, your comments, your current location and travel pattern and more) to deliver ads and content tailored specifically to you as a user.

There is nothing particularly sinister about it, as long as you know what they can know and how they can obtain that knowledge, thus putting you in position to do something about it.
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.