Author Topic: Islam and Atheism  (Read 4449 times)

Tank

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #75 on: March 24, 2018, 07:40:19 PM »

All religions are myths. All holy books claim to be the true word of god. You deny all but your own. All the other people deny all holy books but their own (what a surprise) I just sit on the sidelines and laugh at the stupidity of believers. The fact that a conman like Mohamed (piss be upon him) wrote it is the other huge giveaway.

Nope, I accept all original version of Holy books. Just know that all of them beside the last one (Quran) are changed by human hand to earn benefit from innocent people. I am just against this.
No you don't you deny all other faiths but your own you are a liar. Taqiyya at work.

No.
Try to understand that I am saying all holy believes come from the same source, God.

Taqiyya is a word for Shias not for sunnies. We don't lie in anyway.
How can beliefs come from a supernatural entity for which there is no evidence?

Tank, you teach me the answer of the problem below and I will give you the answer of your question above.

Hold a born blind person's hand, take him to the desert under bright sun and try to prove the existence of Sun.

How can you do that?

Can you convince him by saying "Do you feel warm? That is because of sun" Can you prove the existence of light to the person who is in dark, by just showing its consequences.

God's signature is everywhere, from icosahedral viruses to the 200 billion star galaxies if you don't want to see it What Can I do?
Gods signature is whatever you want it to be. That makes the god claim 'unfalsifiable' which mean it is an irrational claim. That logic is based on the ignorance of our ancestors who had to believe there was a reason or a cause for everything. They simply could not accept that they didn't know why the sun came up.

Now you believe in a myth. There is no evidence for gods and because of the 'unfalsifiable' nature of the god claim there never can be. To believe in something for which there is no evidence and never can be is delusional.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #76 on: March 24, 2018, 07:41:45 PM »
...
Taqiyya is a word for Shias not for sunnies. We don't lie in anyway.
Well you would say that wouldn't you.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Fatih

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #77 on: March 24, 2018, 07:45:04 PM »
So the one who wrote your book is infallible. Who was this infallible person?

I thought we agree that all holy books come from Allah (God).
The Creator of the universe,
Architect of this Realm,
Owner of Everything.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 07:46:00 PM by Tank »
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Tank

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2018, 07:47:23 PM »
So the one who wrote your book is infallible. Who was this infallible person?

I thought we agree that all holy books come from Allah (God).
The Creator of the universe,
Architect of this Realm,
Owner of Everything.
No we agree that holy books are myths created by delusional and/or dishonest people.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

No one

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #79 on: March 24, 2018, 08:17:41 PM »
Hey Islam, you are aware that life exists outside of humans, and the tiny little dot they and every other form of life call home, aren't you? Humans are not special. Not in any way, shape, or form. They are just one of the countless forms of life that dwell in the space we call the universe.

God is made in mankinds Image. Humans are angry, fearfull little empty sacks of meat. The universe is not made for us to appreciate.

Guardian85

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #80 on: March 24, 2018, 08:18:18 PM »
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies

I am aware that the Ottoman period was a flowering of art and science. But was it also not a time of cruelty? It was an empire if its time that grew fatter and more corrupt the longer it lasted. That was then, the only use for history is to be learned from, your culture is sadly lacking there - it is still fighting ancient feuds.

Did you answer Tank's question as to which faction of Islam you hold to? Missed it if you did. It is of interest but not critical to our opinions I think.

Nope Ottomans ruled the world with justice. Except personal mistakes, which only bind its owner.

As  I said I am Sunni

Might want to read up on the Janissaries. At it's height the ottoman Empire made large scale use of captured slave boys as soldiers.
Quote
The first Janissary units were formed from prisoners of war and slaves, probably as a result of the sultan taking his traditional one-fifth share of his army's plunder in kind rather than cash; however the continuing enslaving of dhimmi constituted a continuing abuse of a subject population. Initially the recruiters favoured Greeks and Albanians. As borders of the Ottoman Empire expanded, the devşirme was extended to include Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Serbs, Armenians, Hungarians and later, in rare instances, Romanians, Georgians, Ukrainians and southern Russians.
-Wikipedia-


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Fatih

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #81 on: March 24, 2018, 08:30:33 PM »


Now you believe in a myth. There is no evidence for gods and because of the 'unfalsifiable' nature of the god claim there never can be. To believe in something for which there is no evidence and never can be is delusional.

Ok. Do you want evidence?

Why do people (human) speak? As all living things basicly to fullfil his basic instincs. To get rid of hunger, thirst, sexuality. Or he sings, write poems to beauty or power. To state thoughts.

However, have you ever heard someone who starts to speak  like
"I swear to Universe and him Who built it,
to the earth and him Who rounded it,
to the soul and him who shaped it
that
The one, cleans it (soul) will succed
the one who covers it (with sins) will fail.

(Of course in its original language it is really beautiful and accented, but it is impossible to translate it to another language protecting its artistic influence)

Are these look like human words? Human soul sourced words?

Think about the sentences you set up from whole your life, have you ever thought to speak like that?

So, what is the source of these words?

This is the meaning of Prophet, they transfer God's words to us, it can not belong to a human.

They don't like the sentences that humans made
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #82 on: March 24, 2018, 08:35:06 PM »
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies

I am aware that the Ottoman period was a flowering of art and science. But was it also not a time of cruelty? It was an empire if its time that grew fatter and more corrupt the longer it lasted. That was then, the only use for history is to be learned from, your culture is sadly lacking there - it is still fighting ancient feuds.

Did you answer Tank's question as to which faction of Islam you hold to? Missed it if you did. It is of interest but not critical to our opinions I think.

Nope Ottomans ruled the world with justice. Except personal mistakes, which only bind its owner.

As  I said I am Sunni

Might want to read up on the Janissaries. At it's height the ottoman Empire made large scale use of captured slave boys as soldiers.
Quote
The first Janissary units were formed from prisoners of war and slaves, probably as a result of the sultan taking his traditional one-fifth share of his army's plunder in kind rather than cash; however the continuing enslaving of dhimmi constituted a continuing abuse of a subject population. Initially the recruiters favoured Greeks and Albanians. As borders of the Ottoman Empire expanded, the devşirme was extended to include Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Serbs, Armenians, Hungarians and later, in rare instances, Romanians, Georgians, Ukrainians and southern Russians.
-Wikipedia-

funny, because one of the most famous vizier (king's right hand) of Ottomans was devsirme -Janissaries.
They were not just soldiers, they were free men who were willingly join our army to take Islam to the countries who doesn't know Islam.
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Tank

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2018, 08:36:43 PM »


Now you believe in a myth. There is no evidence for gods and because of the 'unfalsifiable' nature of the god claim there never can be. To believe in something for which there is no evidence and never can be is delusional.

Ok. Do you want evidence?

Why do people (human) speak? As all living things basicly to fullfil his basic instincs. To get rid of hunger, thirst, sexuality. Or he sings, write poems to beauty or power. To state thoughts.

However, have you ever heard someone who starts to speak  like
"I swear to Universe and him Who built it,
to the earth and him Who rounded it,
to the soul and him who shaped it
that
The one, cleans it (soul) will succed
the one who covers it (with sins) will fail.

(Of course in its original language it is really beautiful and accented, but it is impossible to translate it to another language protecting its artistic influence)

Are these look like human words? Human soul sourced words?

Think about the sentences you set up from whole your life, have you ever thought to speak like that?

So, what is the source of these words?

This is the meaning of Prophet, they transfer God's words to us, it can not belong to a human.

They don't like the sentences that humans made
You evidently don't have a clue what constitutes evidence. All you are doing is preaching the ignorance of our ancestors.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Fatih

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2018, 08:45:25 PM »


God is made in mankinds Image.

Do you want to learn the secret of life?

As Quran clearly explained that, Allah gathered all souls of the humans (who will be sent to the earth later) and asked them "am I not your God?" and all souls answered that "Yes you are" this is the first agreement of the human.
Which makes us responsible for all of our decisions.
Therefore all of us has knowledge of God subconsciously,
big fears and sorrows cleans all the dusts and clouds on that agreement and we remember God immediately. As they say "There are no atheists in falling plane"

This is why we know God, that is not an image. That is a shade of a knowledge.
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Tank

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2018, 08:47:55 PM »


God is made in mankinds Image.

Do you want to learn the secret of life?

As Quran clearly explained that, Allah gathered all souls of the humans (who will be sent to the earth later) and asked them "am I not your God?" and all souls answered that "Yes you are" this is the first agreement of the human.
Which makes us responsible for all of our decisions.
Therefore all of us has knowledge of God subconsciously,
big fears and sorrows cleans all the dusts and clouds on that agreement and we remember God immediately. As they say "There are no atheists in falling plane"

This is why we know God, that is not an image. That is a shade of a knowledge.
More preaching. No evidence.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Old Seer

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2018, 09:24:45 PM »
So the one who wrote your book is infallible. Who was this infallible person?

I thought we agree that all holy books come from Allah (God).
The Creator of the universe,
Architect of this Realm,
Owner of Everything.
People wrote the book. Other then that it would have to be as the Mormons. Mr. Smith had gold tablets that somehow disappeared, that would have had to weighed as much (by some estimates) 600 pounds, and he carried them hither and thither for a while. He claimed the Israelities came to this continent, but there is absolutely no evidence of them ever being here as he qualified and quantified it to be. For that to be true  there would have to be archeological evidence of which none has been found. And, look at the amount of floks that follow that religion's impossibilities. It does nothing but put clergy on their wrung of the social ladder.
No, the books came from people who "claim" to have gotten them, or enlightenment from God. In the case of the bible , it was written by Hebrew prophets. While we hold the the bible as a valid document, our understanding of it is very different then conventional thinking and interpretation.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.

No one

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2018, 10:15:53 PM »
My local religionmart has the best picked cherries. You wouldn't happen to be their supplier, would you Islam?

Guardian85

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2018, 11:10:23 PM »
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies

I am aware that the Ottoman period was a flowering of art and science. But was it also not a time of cruelty? It was an empire if its time that grew fatter and more corrupt the longer it lasted. That was then, the only use for history is to be learned from, your culture is sadly lacking there - it is still fighting ancient feuds.

Did you answer Tank's question as to which faction of Islam you hold to? Missed it if you did. It is of interest but not critical to our opinions I think.

Nope Ottomans ruled the world with justice. Except personal mistakes, which only bind its owner.

As  I said I am Sunni

Might want to read up on the Janissaries. At it's height the ottoman Empire made large scale use of captured slave boys as soldiers.
Quote
The first Janissary units were formed from prisoners of war and slaves, probably as a result of the sultan taking his traditional one-fifth share of his army's plunder in kind rather than cash; however the continuing enslaving of dhimmi constituted a continuing abuse of a subject population. Initially the recruiters favoured Greeks and Albanians. As borders of the Ottoman Empire expanded, the devşirme was extended to include Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Serbs, Armenians, Hungarians and later, in rare instances, Romanians, Georgians, Ukrainians and southern Russians.
-Wikipedia-

funny, because one of the most famous vizier (king's right hand) of Ottomans was devsirme -Janissaries.
They were not just soldiers, they were free men who were willingly join our army to take Islam to the countries who doesn't know Islam.
The ottomans took boys from their families in the Balkans and Eastern European countries, force marched them to Turkey, and abused them until their spirits were broken and then brainwashed them into being obedient servants. Nothing willing about that.
And you called the ottomans just.


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Icarus

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Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #89 on: March 25, 2018, 03:17:39 AM »
Well whoop-de doo, we have a full blown shitstorn for six pages.  What happened to the thread in the Ask HAF section about whether we should dispose of militant intruders?

Despite the consensus about doing away with trouble makers, I salute those of you who are fighting back against a seemingly intelligent individual who has his head in a place where the sun does not shine. That is the same as pissing against the tide. Let's move on to some subject with substance.

Though I do not wish to engage in a pissing contest with Islam, I do recall the Quoran based belief "I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah."    Is that not from the Sword of Verses for Inspiration?  Does Shurah 9:5  not say that :Fight and slay the idolaters wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush.....?

We on this side of the world, the civilized part, the analytically permissive part, are not fond of that kind of misanthropic ignorance of reality.