Author Topic: Islam and Atheism  (Read 3552 times)

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30292
  • Gender: Male
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2018, 01:00:34 PM »
Here is an interesting thological position on the Quran.

The 20 Versions of the Qur'an today. (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30292
  • Gender: Male
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2018, 01:03:27 PM »
Fatih, are you Sunni or Shia? And why are you that particular version?

Religion in Turkey
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Old Seer

  • Was God's Anointed But Took a Shower
  • *
  • Posts: 218
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2018, 01:19:08 PM »
Well, from where I am, you still have the same problem as any religion. Does or does not, a superhuman run the universe, and can one prove such a person exists. From what I can plainly see religious floks still follow "people" who make claims they benefit from. It's obvious that any faith in such a person is merely faith in the ones who are leaders of religions. Religion is a business no different then any other business. It exists on the same rudiments as any business corporation. Take the money away and religion will go away. If the leaders didn't get paid or make a living from religion it would go away.
"Money and personal powers" run the world of people, and the laws of physics rules the material universe. I find no reason to follow anyone as I have a mind of my own, and it is I that must determine true from false. There's not a clergyman on the planet that can actually believe that. Religions are made up of people that, for their own psychological reasons, want to run other peoples lives. I find no reason to follow someone who at some time in the past developed a self induced hallucination and passed it off as a message from God, merely because he/she didn't understand his/her own mind. I have imaginations too, but that don't mean I have revelations from a super human somebody. If one does their own thinking and has an understanding of peaceful relations with other one dosen't need to believe in external spirits. Religions mostly exist on misplaced understandings of "what is" and "what isn't". One need not believe another just because "he/she" had some emotional experience that they wish to foist off on others as a message from an invisible being thy can't prove exits. No offense intended.

BTW. I can plainly see the last and only religion will ultimately be---no religion and no central government. :)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 02:21:24 PM by Old Seer »
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.

Old Seer

  • Was God's Anointed But Took a Shower
  • *
  • Posts: 218
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2018, 04:08:21 PM »

That is whst you are taught. Please give me an example if your "obvious" god that cannot, in any way, be attributed to chance, human will or intervention, or any other of the myriad things that really cintrol our existence and can be held, measured, deduced from ohyducsl evidence and do forth.


First of all Proving existence of Allah (God) is not a religious think. It is the area of the science "Logic".

First truth: Every complex thing has an Architect.
Second truth: Universe is the most complex thing.
Ergo: Universe has the most intelligent Architect.

That is it.

however you believe him or not, that is your choice...
Ok, but now, just a minute here.
Science----there's only 2 areas of science to deliberate here. The universe contains only 2 things, and those two are divided into their components. There is only material/physical science, and the science of the mind understood to mean psychology. Psychology is the study of "person" and it's components. What your say is --there is a psychological fact that exist in the universe free of any physical attributes. OK, but How so. The only psychological facts that can be discerned are what's connected to, or a product of a material brain.
That means--to understand God then would have to mean understanding psychological facts. That in turn means that God (Allah, if you prefer) is psychological. If I am also psychological and I know me and my mental components then what do I need with a God--or an Allah.  That would be the same as --if I know me and my personal components (which would have to be the same as anyone else's) then I know God. That eliminates any need for any god. Someone screwed up here.  Would this not be proof that religions do not have any authority from god as no clergyman could possibly any different then God and neither would anyone else. It has to be a scam perpetrated by someone in the past who conjured this all up out of self interest--mainly because he was to damn lazy to grow his own wheat and figured out (some psycho-ploy) to get others to do it for him.

There isn't a clergyman in existence and never was that is/was made up psychologically different then anyone else then you or I. So, any claim of a god, and that god then cannot be any different then you or I, all I need to know is me. And, I'm have no psychological traits different then any clergyman. That means (without a doubt) I don't need them, and for one of them to claim they have divine revelation and I don't has got to be a farce and a lie---be cause I can claim the same and say--I have divine revelation too--if I want others to serve "My" best interest, and live free of labor on the planet just as they. Why not just be a wall streeter and live off other people's labor and money. Simple aint it. What sayeth ye. 
 How can a clergyman claim to represent God, if god is psychologically no different then anyone, as God psychologically would "have" to be the same as everyone. It's impossible for there to be two different psychologies. Your love or hate can't be any different then gods, would that not be correct. So then, they represent a psychology that's the same as yours. What need do you have for them if you know you. Then divine revelation has to be pure hogwash which makes the world a fools parade and liars paradise. Tell your clergyman to go get a job and mind his own life.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 04:20:48 PM by Old Seer »
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.

Guardian85

  • Dirty deeds done dirt cheap
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4675
  • Gender: Male
  • Big friendly Viking.
    • Random Ramblings
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2018, 05:05:53 PM »
Nope, the sad thing is devil is very successful in his job. Illusions. Show good to bad show bad to good.
Can you imagine a religion whose name is "Peace (Islam)" kill people? How could it be? Don't you think manipulations?
Isn't the literal translation of "islam" actually "submission"?



First of all Proving existence of Allah (God) is not a religious think. It is the area of the science "Logic".

First truth: Every complex thing has an Architect.
Second truth: Universe is the most complex thing.
Ergo: Universe has the most intelligent Architect.

That is it.

however you believe him or not, that is your choice...
The Kalaam Cosmological Argument.
Debunked many times, but ignorant religious muppets still bring it up like it's bulletproof.

For the record; it has all the bulletproof qualities of a slightly melted cheese.


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7027
  • Gender: Male
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2018, 05:33:46 PM »

That is whst you are taught. Please give me an example if your "obvious" god that cannot, in any way, be attributed to chance, human will or intervention, or any other of the myriad things that really cintrol our existence and can be held, measured, deduced from ohyducsl evidence and do forth.


First of all Proving existence of Allah (God) is not a religious think. It is the area of the science "Logic".

First truth: Every complex thing has an Architect.
Second truth: Universe is the most complex thing.
Ergo: Universe has the most intelligent Architect.

That is it.

however you believe him or not, that is your choice...

Let's look at "truth":

Quote
truth
that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

noun: the truth
a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

plural noun: truths
"the emergence of scientific truths"

So, right away we have a word that means just what can be used to mean whatever you want. Your truth is meaningless to me, my truth us meaningless to you. Can there actually be any such thing as truth?

But, at least I can find incontravertible evidence that the scientific truths apply in the same way in the same conditions every tine. Your god seems to toss a coin as to which saint or sinner it saves from whichever natural disaster it allows to happen or who gets blown up by the suicide bombers it inspires etc, etc, etc.

Your god has no power other than that invoked in the psychology of its followers - from the sacrifice of the charity worker to the psychopathic torturer and murderer.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Fatih

  • Was known as Islam.
  • Beginning to See the Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2018, 05:39:37 PM »
Islam:
the second thing I didn't get what you meant with "why does it give two shits about such insignificant pests?

The universe is immense. For all intents and purposes, it is eternal, by humans standards. Humanity is an inconsequential boil on the ass of existence. Why would the creator of all that is give a flying fuck about something so unconditionally worthless?

Problem starts here. Atheism (Eventhough deny existance of him) has an assumption that God doesn't care human
But the fact is completely opposite of this. Allah (God) cares about each individual human being. Look at his words.

"Eyy (address word in Arabic) Human! What makes you turn your face away from your God, while he is generous to you?

"Does human thinks we let him alone (carelessly)?

Another thing, about Immense Universe,
God is an Artist in someway and He wanted  to show us his Gorgeous Intelligence and Art work therefore he crated us with ability to appreciate art.

To be honest I don't want to talk like your priests and I don't have intention to convince you that "everything is great on earth".

As question of examination the life on earth has some difficulties like ilnesses, wildness, death, breakups and sorrow. But these are just as long as a blink (considering human life (80) and earth life (4.500.000.000) and if you win the exam, you will never see those bad things in your eternal life.

That is the great part of life "Hope to escape from it"

« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 06:14:19 PM by Islam »
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

  • Was known as Islam.
  • Beginning to See the Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2018, 05:45:25 PM »
"I can accept atheist approaches in Christian countries, because of the logical and ethical contraversions in especially old testament which make it Unbelievable."

Mohamed (piss be upon him) accepted the old testament into Islamic lore. Thus, by your estimate. making Islam also Unbelievable.
No reply?

We accept that original version of all holy books came from Allah (including bible, Torah etc., but all of them broken up by human hand except the last holy book Quran, it is miraculously protected by Allah himself.
It is original. Therefore there is no contraventions in it. ( I am saying because I spend 25 years on it, I am speaking what I know and will share that knowledge as much as I can)
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

  • Was known as Islam.
  • Beginning to See the Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2018, 05:57:19 PM »
Fatih what makes you different from your fellow Muslim Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi the leader of ISIS?
Because it is like a joke I really laughed this comparison. However I ll try to explain
When a person search, learn, think, compare and inspect carefully what he believes, he is a believer. When a person accepts dogmas, bias and assumptions as Religion he is brain washed.
That is the difference.
Believers think... because in Quran there are over 700 ayah ordering people to think to find the truths.
Brainwashed ones do every evil eyes closed thinking that They think they do serve God, however they just serve evil, but they have no awareness what about they are doing. This subject is really long but lets say enough for this message

« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 06:12:50 PM by Islam »
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

  • Was known as Islam.
  • Beginning to See the Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2018, 06:03:56 PM »

Still no answer. Presumably this is because you are obliged by you mythology to kill me and that would totally fuck your groundless assertion that Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is in fact a religion of peace, if you don't believe it then you will be killed (or pay tax to avoid being killed) the Mafia learned that trick, it's called a protection racket.

What made you believe that Muslims kill other people who has different believes?
Not just our Prophet Muhammad, in human history none of the real Muslim kings or commanders killed people because they are not believers. All the wars we had were against Cruelty and to protect human rights...
You just see some terrorists (called muslims but actually jut actors) and judge İslam by them.

As I said, Islam is much more different than your assumptions and biases.
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

  • Was known as Islam.
  • Beginning to See the Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2018, 06:05:26 PM »
Fatih, are you Sunni or Shia? And why are you that particular version?

Religion in Turkey

I am Sunni.
I take refuge in Allah to be shia
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

  • Was known as Islam.
  • Beginning to See the Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2018, 06:10:41 PM »
Nope, the sad thing is devil is very successful in his job. Illusions. Show good to bad show bad to good.
Can you imagine a religion whose name is "Peace (Islam)" kill people? How could it be? Don't you think manipulations?
Isn't the literal translation of "islam" actually "submission"?


Nope it comes from the word selam (we great each other using this word actually) which means "be safe from all dangers" and that means peace.
But it also related to meaning "refuge to a big power to be safe from all dangers" therefore it also means "submission to Allah to be safe from all dangers"
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30292
  • Gender: Male
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2018, 06:14:15 PM »
...

Problem starts here. Atheism (Eventhough deny existance of him) ..
Fatih, you come to an atheist forum and tell us what atheism is when you have not a clue what atheism is, don't worry your ignorance is very common among theist. Atheist (with a few exceptions) do not deny gods exist. We have simply rationally deduced that the lack of evidence to support the existence of gods (combined with the fact there never can be evidence for for gods) means that it is irrational to behave as though gods exist.

Now there are essentially two types of atheists. About 75% of us think that the lack of evidence means that there probably isn't a god and we live our lives free of superstition. About 25% of us think that this total lack of evidence is in itself conclusive evidence that gods don't exist. Personally I fall into the 75% that would change our minds if suitable evidence for the existance were to be presented. Don't forget holy books are not evidence.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7027
  • Gender: Male
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2018, 06:14:21 PM »
Fatih, you wear blinkers and rose tinted soectacles to look down a narrow tunnel through a telescope the wrong way round.

You have been so thoroughly brain washed.

But, I try not to judge a person by what they believe, for what "sins" their parents and authorities have committed against them, only by what they do for mankind. You are an evangelist for your faith, that gives you a minus mark in my reckoning but you seem good at heart.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 30292
  • Gender: Male
Re: Islam and Atheism
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2018, 06:17:05 PM »
Islam:
the second thing I didn't get what you meant with "why does it give two shits about such insignificant pests?

The universe is immense. For all intents and purposes, it is eternal, by humans standards. Humanity is an inconsequential boil on the ass of existence. Why would the creator of all that is give a flying fuck about something so unconditionally worthless?

Problem starts here. Atheism (Eventhough deny existance of him) has an assumption that God doesn't care human
But the fact is completely opposite of this. Allah (God) cares about each individual human being. Look at his words.

"Eyy (address word in Arabic) Human! What makes you turn your face away from your God, while he is generous to you?

"Does human thinks we let him alone (carelessly)?

Another thing, about Immense Universe,
God is an Artist in someway and He wanted  to show us his Gorgeous Intelligence and Art work therefore he crated us with ability to appreciate art.

To be honest I don't want to talk like your priests and I don't have intention to convince you that "everything is great on earth".

As question of examination the life on earth has some difficulties like ilnesses, wildness, death, breakups and sorrow. But these are just as long as a blink (considering human life (80) and earth life (4.500.000.000) and if you win the exam, you will never see those bad things in your eternal life.

That is the great part of life "Hope to escape from it"
There is no evidence to support the conjecture that Allah exists. Therefore any assertions about the existence of Allah or what you deem he has done or said are meaningless.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.