Author Topic: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!  (Read 2863 times)

Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2018, 12:30:14 PM »
Yes, you see, you... You are onto something here.

A level playing field. Equality of opportunity.

Equality of outcome is putting weights on the better horses to make the race more interesting.
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Bad Penny II

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2018, 12:40:18 PM »
Yes, you see, you... You are onto something here.

A level playing field. Equality of opportunity.

Equality of outcome is putting weights on the better horses to make the race more interesting.

Male horses tend to do better with a bit less weight.

Ms Mare...................Gonadless.......................................... Big Balls.Gentled Gelding ................Feminazi........... Mr Testicles............
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 01:03:36 PM by Bad Penny II »
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Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2018, 01:08:36 PM »
As do gay Latinx horses, or so I hear. They are white though, by European standards, so... Them's be having privilege right there. Something ought to be done about that. My suggestion? A few buckets of L'Oreal jet black dye. Because I'm worth it.

Straight female horses, on the other hand... Load 'em up! Actually, I believe that we who are politically to the right of Mao think this is some part of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, which operates by ways of weighing down all the non-Jewish horses and... Insert Holocaust joke here. Hashtag misogyny hashtag notyourhorse hashtag rampantracism hashtag metoo

Eh... No sense in dragging my other virtual and physical life on HaF too... Let's just call this last one an esoteric reference.
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Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2018, 02:59:10 PM »
If you think the rules have been breached, report it and I will make my case to the staff (recused from any ruling, obviously)
I can't tell if rules are breached or not when there is no consistency. I can't get a consistent ruling from the moderators on these things, so you want us to pretend like there's no problem then and go use that unreliable system? That's fucking stupid.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2018, 03:08:31 PM »
If you think the rules have been breached, report it and I will make my case to the staff (recused from any ruling, obviously)
I can't tell if rules are breached or not when there is no consistency. I can't get a consistent ruling from the moderators on these things, so you want us to pretend like there's no problem then and go use that unreliable system? That's fucking stupid.

Hi.

Save me the pain of reading the thread what's going on?
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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2018, 03:11:18 PM »
...

I mean, I get reprimanded for making jokes about things that were said, but a moderator using an intentionally insulting term against specific women is OK?
Is the woman in question a member of the forum? If not they are not protected by the rules.
Could the insult be considered generally sexist in nature? If so it may infringe the site rules.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2018, 03:13:53 PM »
The change in claims is noted, but the change seems to favor your point only if you ignore mine. The issue as presented is that you claimed that if a company focuses on hiring more women, then they will not get the best. This implies that women, (or more generously most women), are not the best. If women can be the best, then focusing on hiring more of them should still allow hiring the best.
No such implication (By the way, any missing or multiplied letters come courtesy of my mechanical keyboard. I may or may not spell check later)

Again, YOU are talking about women, not I. I don't give a fuck if the best person for the job has a vagina, and so I see no reason to encourage people with vaginas specifically to apply. So yes, if a company focuses on encouraging women to apply and prioritises hiring more women, as opposed to hiring who-the-fuck-ever is best suited for any given job, then... They may very well not get the best.
I like the way you keep trying to avoid the topic at hand. You apparently do care, because you said that if a company focuses on hiring more women, then they are not getting the best. That leaves you with only a few rationally valid options. Either you think that women cannot be the best or that less women can be the best. If you don't care about the best having a vagina, then why do you have an issue with a company focusing on hiring more women justifying it by saying that they then would not get the best? If you thought that women can be the best, then there should be just as many best women as best men, then there should be absolutely no issue with any hiring guideline to get up to about half of each. If there were no bias problem this would happen naturally and the rule wouldn't even matter... unless you think that women aren't as good as men.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
No, I'm not. Use my words, not how you feel about my words and you'll have a better time understanding what I mean.
I did. I'm a master of calling people out for putting words in my mouth. In this instance, however... Affirmative action discriminates by ways I mentioned above. You are noted as a proponent of affirmative action. Therefore, youuu support "fighting" discrimination with more discrimination. What exactly did I misrepresent about your position?
No I don't, but let me know when you can comprehend what I actually wrote.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
So no one gets a job? I don't see how that analogy makes sense any other way.
So no-one is discriminated against, which includes the bald white asshole with a tattooed scalp.
Not even discriminated against based on skill? This is not a flippant comment, this derives straight from the above, when you try to stretch a word that far, you make it useless, in that you're now supporting discrimination.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
I don't give a shit about liberal or conservative. I don't give a shit about any kind of emotional labeling, I'm just in support of fixing a pervasive problem. I am not a liberal, I am not a conservative, I am not part of any political party... the reason people should be on board is if they want to fix problems, not for any childish thing like blindly supporting a group they think they belong to.
Wrong Liberal. In your world, the people I'm referring to are... In generic terms, I suuuppose they are Repuublican-leaning centrists. It's not a uestion of progressivism versus conservatism, but of liberty versus despotism. Just to restate an important point here, I'm making an argument from individual values, not from collective affiliation.
I don't give a shit. Like I already said.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
Having more people susceptible to the bias doesn't solve the problem of the bias. But it can make it worse, because the amount of biased gates (or even generously, "potentially biased gates"), a woman has to pass through necessarily decreases her odds to make it through to success.
That does sound rather nonsensical, but maybe I'm not seeingg something...  :headscratch:
I'll try to simplify the concept, I figured that a developer would get the concept of gates and thought it rather simple to begin with.

Let's say that a qualified woman is going for a job, but instead of basing it on her skill, she is subject the already studied and proven biases that exist. So whether she gets the job or not is down to a coin flip. If tails she doesn't get hired. One flip is a 50% chance. But then you want to introduce more possibly biased people into the process. Two flips severely decreases her odds of getting heads both times. Then you want to add in three flips, and then her odds go down even more. The more flips (people you add to the process) doesn't increase her odds, it decreases them.

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Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2018, 03:16:49 PM »
...

I mean, I get reprimanded for making jokes about things that were said, but a moderator using an intentionally insulting term against specific women is OK?
Is the woman in question a member of the forum? If not they are not protected by the rules.
Could the insult be considered generally sexist in nature? If so it may infringe the site rules.
I would love to rely on the forum rules, but I can't. I don't break them and I still get a mod message. While in a topic I would think would be far more sensitive to degrading actual people, it's apparently just fine. Or maybe it's just not fine when I break some unwritten taboo.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2018, 03:17:50 PM »
...

I mean, I get reprimanded for making jokes about things that were said, but a moderator using an intentionally insulting term against specific women is OK?
Is the woman in question a member of the forum? If not they are not protected by the rules.
Could the insult be considered generally sexist in nature? If so it may infringe the site rules.
I would love to rely on the forum rules, but I can't. I don't break them and I still get a mod message. While in a topic I would think would be far more sensitive to degrading actual people, it's apparently just fine. Or maybe it's just not fine when I break some unwritten taboo.
Thank you for not clarifying the situation.  ::)
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Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2018, 03:31:10 PM »
...

I mean, I get reprimanded for making jokes about things that were said, but a moderator using an intentionally insulting term against specific women is OK?
Is the woman in question a member of the forum? If not they are not protected by the rules.
Could the insult be considered generally sexist in nature? If so it may infringe the site rules.
I would love to rely on the forum rules, but I can't. I don't break them and I still get a mod message. While in a topic I would think would be far more sensitive to degrading actual people, it's apparently just fine. Or maybe it's just not fine when I break some unwritten taboo.
Thank you for not clarifying the situation.  ::)
Alright, I'll fucking dumb it down then... even though it's right there if you followed what was quoted.

We're in an obviously divisive topic.
Asmodean claimed to intentionally insult some women (then doubled down in response to me by insulting them more).
Recently, I made jokes about what a person said (not insulting any specific person), and I got reprimanded in a far less sensitive topic.
So I'm a little lost here on what the fucking deal is? Is it civility? Is insulting some women a civil thing to do? Is that more civil than me only making jokes about things that are said?
Is there going to be a forum rule that we can all follow?

Because all it looks like to me is that y'all are playing Calvin ball with the rules but only when it comes to me.

For the record, I don't fucking care if he insults me or other people, my issue is with inconsistently applied moderation.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2018, 04:04:39 PM »
Is the woman in question a member of the forum? If not they are not protected by the rules.
Could the insult be considered generally sexist in nature? If so it may infringe the site rules.
Neither of them is, to the best of my knowledge.

I like the way you keep trying to avoid the topic at hand. You apparently do care, because you said that if a company focuses on hiring more women, then they are not getting the best. That leaves you with only a few rationally valid options. Either you think that women cannot be the best or that less women can be the best. If you don't care about the best having a vagina, then why do you have an issue with a company focusing on hiring more women justifying it by saying that they then would not get the best? If you thought that women can be the best, then there should be just as many best women as best men, then there should be absolutely no issue with any hiring guideline to get up to about half of each. If there were no bias problem this would happen naturally and the rule wouldn't even matter... unless you think that women aren't as good as men.
You hire whoever is best suited for the job, with no regard to their genitals, unless specific genitalia is required in that particular vocation. This says nothing about "less women being the best" or "more women being the best," the only assumption I make, is that there is, in fact an person, who is better suited for the job than others.

We are talking past each other here. I come at this from the perspective of my values, which I have listed. Among them is individuality. I do not collectivise applicants by gender, ethnicity or whatever beyond their individual suitability for the job - that is your thing in this discussion.

I am not avoiding the topic at hand either; I think, based on my values, that Google's firing of James Damore was wrong. I have explained why, in the context of those values. You disputed (Very poorly, by the way) my premises, and I defended them, one of the points being that yes, I consider a company actively attempting to hire more women to be engaging in some illiberal, anti-individualist and anti-meritocratic practices. Why? Because if they were not, they would attempt to hire whoever is best suited for the job, their gender, ethnicity or whatever being irrelevant to the process.

Anonymous CVs may be a step in the right direction, if you want to discuss policy.


Quote
Not even discriminated against based on skill? This is not a flippant comment, this derives straight from the above, when you try to stretch a word that far, you make it useless, in that you're now supporting discrimination.
*Sigh* No, them's be individual attributes, not collective ones.

Scope: Discrimination is preferential or disadvantageous treatment of someone based on that person's group characteristics.

Quote
I don't give a shit. Like I already said.
No, you did not say that you did not care. You said you did not care about general political labels. I explained to you... You know what? I'm happy to drop this point, actually, as I'm doing a Sarkeesian/Quinn post and... It requires some labour and time.

Quote
I'll try to simplify the concept, I figured that a developer would get the concept of gates and thought it rather simple to begin with.

Let's say that a qualified woman is going for a job, but instead of basing it on her skill, she is subject the already studied and proven biases that exist. So whether she gets the job or not is down to a coin flip. If tails she doesn't get hired. One flip is a 50% chance. But then you want to introduce more possibly biased people into the process. Two flips severely decreases her odds of getting heads both times. Then you want to add in three flips, and then her odds go down even more. The more flips (people you add to the process) doesn't increase her odds, it decreases them.
I got it, actually. Some perspective related issues.

No, the system does not create more doors to lockpick as such. Every CV is handled by more than one person before it's sidelined or a call for an interview is made, just like there are several people handling the interviews (Though that usually in tiers, one after the other) Basically, you are tossing multiple coins at the same time, and sometimes, even if just one lands your way, you proceed to the next step.
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Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2018, 04:14:06 PM »
T, Davin is referring to this;

(Davin, if you disagree with my cropping of my opening posts here, do shout out. It's just for convenience and tl;dr)


What's with the wamen-gif, Papasito..? You know I easily misunderstand such, unless explained using like... Words and shit  ;)



That's Zoë Quinn on the left, and Anita Sarkeesian on the right...I figured they would be interested in watching the back and forth on this thread considering James Damore, the subject of the OP was fired because, and I'll paraphrase the scientifically shaky argument he presented in his memo "It’s not discrimination...Females just aren’t biologically suited for the maths"!

Basically the hero Damore and other Googler "White" men are saying they were fired for having conservative beliefs, and speaking up about them, because, you know, revolution is the festival of the oppressed or some such crap.

This is an actual excerpt from original class action law-suit.
Quote
Damore, Gudeman, and other class members were ostracized, belittled, and punished for their heterodox political views, and for the added sin of their birth circumstances of being Caucasians and/or males.

That's funny shit...they feel they are being discriminated against at a Company that is 70 percent Male, and 61 percent White...because they are white, and male.

Poor snowflakes.

I know well who they are - notice how I spelled "Wamen" in my question..? That's a reference to something.  ;)

Thanks for clarifying.

I was meming about Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn. I am in the process of making a post at the request of another member, explaining my problem with them. Frankly, I don't see an insult.
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Magdalena

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2018, 04:16:17 PM »
...

I mean, I get reprimanded for making jokes about things that were said, but a moderator using an intentionally insulting term against specific women is OK?
Is the woman in question a member of the forum? If not they are not protected by the rules.
Could the insult be considered generally sexist in nature? If so it may infringe the site rules.
I would love to rely on the forum rules, but I can't. I don't break them and I still get a mod message. While in a topic I would think would be far more sensitive to degrading actual people, it's apparently just fine. Or maybe it's just not fine when I break some unwritten taboo.
Thank you for not clarifying the situation.  ::)
Alright, I'll fucking dumb it down then... even though it's right there if you followed what was quoted.

We're in an obviously divisive topic.
Asmodean claimed to intentionally insult some women (then doubled down in response to me by insulting them more).
Recently, I made jokes about what a person said (not insulting any specific person), and I got reprimanded in a far less sensitive topic.
So I'm a little lost here on what the fucking deal is? Is it civility? Is insulting some women a civil thing to do? Is that more civil than me only making jokes about things that are said?
Is there going to be a forum rule that we can all follow?

Because all it looks like to me is that y'all are playing Calvin ball with the rules but only when it comes to me.

For the record, I don't fucking care if he insults me or other people, my issue is with inconsistently applied moderation.
Davin,
Thank you for standing up for women here, and out there. I sincerely appreciate it.

"Majestic Gratitude."


Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2018, 04:33:25 PM »
I consider my reasons for going after those two in the way I did to be pretty sound, and my way of going about it mild. It has to do with what they did, the agendas they pushed and continue to push, the fucking... Drama and scumbaggery and attention seeking and possibly even something approaching fraud in Sarkeesian's case. They happen to both be female, but that is not actually a consideration beyond my gender-appropriate choice of meme.

Just a clarification.

T, I did not see your sexism question until now, so lemme address it;

I have provided some context already and will provide the working definition for evaluation.

Quote from: Urban dictionary
Wamen
A rare species of women that usually need more attention/respect than any other women also some of them are an idiot(sometimes ask a stupid question like "Is math related to science?")


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Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2018, 04:36:24 PM »
I like the way you keep trying to avoid the topic at hand. You apparently do care, because you said that if a company focuses on hiring more women, then they are not getting the best. That leaves you with only a few rationally valid options. Either you think that women cannot be the best or that less women can be the best. If you don't care about the best having a vagina, then why do you have an issue with a company focusing on hiring more women justifying it by saying that they then would not get the best? If you thought that women can be the best, then there should be just as many best women as best men, then there should be absolutely no issue with any hiring guideline to get up to about half of each. If there were no bias problem this would happen naturally and the rule wouldn't even matter... unless you think that women aren't as good as men.
You hire whoever is best suited for the job, with no regard to their genitals, unless specific genitalia is required in that particular vocation. This says nothing about "less women being the best" or "more women being the best," the only assumption I make, is that there is, in fact an person, who is better suited for the job than others.
No, you said that the practice of hiring more women would resulting in not hiring the best. Or are you walking that back now?

Quote from: Asmodean
We are talking past each other here. I come at this from the perspective of my values, which I have listed. Among them is individuality. I do not collectivise applicants by gender, ethnicity or whatever beyond their individual suitability for the job - that is your thing in this discussion.

I am not avoiding the topic at hand either; I think, based on my values, that Google's firing of James Damore was wrong. I have explained why, in the context of those values. You disputed (Very poorly, by the way) my premises, and I defended them, one of the points being that yes, I consider a company actively attempting to hire more women to be engaging in some illiberal, anti-individualist and anti-meritocratic practices. Why? Because if they were not, they would attempt to hire whoever is best suited for the job, their gender, ethnicity or whatever being irrelevant to the process.

Anonymous CVs may be a step in the right direction, if you want to discuss policy.
Sure, I disputed them very poorly. Whatever makes you feel better about avoiding the points and talking about other things. And yet, opposed to what you just said a little farther up, you're saying again, that the practice of hiring more women will result in not hiring the best. Look into why you think that, why do you think that having more women hired means not hiring the best.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
Not even discriminated against based on skill? This is not a flippant comment, this derives straight from the above, when you try to stretch a word that far, you make it useless, in that you're now supporting discrimination.
*Sigh* No, them's be individual attributes, not collective ones.

Scope: Discrimination is preferential or disadvantageous treatment of someone based on that person's group characteristics.
So "unskilled" isn't groupable?

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
I don't give a shit. Like I already said.
No, you did not say that you did not care.
Um... :lol: you do know that "I don't give a shit" means the same thing as "I don't care" right? I mean right?

Quote from: Asmodean
I got it, actually.
Then why did you say you didn't?

Quote from: Asmodean
No, the system does not create more doors to lockpick as such. Every CV is handled by more than one person before it's sidelined or a call for an interview is made, just like there are several people handling the interviews (Though that usually in tiers, one after the other) Basically, you are tossing multiple coins at the same time, and sometimes, even if just one lands your way, you proceed to the next step.
More coin tossing equals more chance of failure when success requires passing multiple tests and where only one failed test means failure. This is basic stuff here.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.