Author Topic: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!  (Read 2752 times)

Recusant

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I did a search, and I guess we never had a thread here about James Damore, the Google employee that felt Google was doing too much to encourage women and minorities to work there, and wrote an internal memo about it. Google fired him, and he filed a complaint with the NLRB. He became a cause celebre for the alt-right and fellow travellers. Damore later dropped the complaint, choosing to file a class action lawsuit instead. However, the NLRB has gone ahead and ruled on the complaint.

"James Damore's labor complaint went over about as well as his trash diversity manifesto" | The Register

Quote
Google was well within its rights when it dumped controversial bro-grammer James Damore in mid-2017.

This is according to legal advice given to America's National Labor Relations Board by its associate general counsel Jayme Sophir. In a just-released memo to the board, she explained the Chocolate Factory did not break US employment laws when it fired Damore last year for comments he made in his infamous anti-diversity manifesto.

Her recommendation advises the labor board to throw out Damore's complaint against Google on the grounds the web giant had ample legal standing to can Damore for emitting that scatterbrain screed.

The ex-Googler dropped his complaint to the labor board earlier this month. He is still pursuing a civil lawsuit against Google in the California Superior Court over his sacking.

Sophir noted that Damore's memo created enough of an uproar at Google, and contained enough inflammatory claims about his female colleagues, that much of his rant against the tech goliath's diversity policies would not be protected under the National Labor Relations Act. Essentially, Damore claimed women's brains are just not inherently suited to engineering jobs, which is a pretty stupid thing to assert.

"Once [Damore's] memorandum was shared publicly, at least two female engineering candidates withdrew from consideration and explicitly named the memo as their reason for doing so," the lawyer advised.

"Thus, while much of the Charging Party’s memorandum was likely protected, the statements regarding biological differences between the sexes were so harmful, discriminatory, and disruptive as to be unprotected."

Damore was not the only person to be disciplined after his essay leaked online. Sophir's memo details an email sent to Damore by a fellow Googler reading: "You're a misogynist and a terrible human. I will keep hounding you until one of us is fired. Fuck you."

That employee was given a "final warning" from Google bosses, we're told.

Sophir's memorandum goes on to say Damore's missive was also a liability for Google as not addressing it could have put the company at risk of complaints and legal action from other employees.

[Continues . . .]
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jumbojak

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 03:32:17 AM »
I wanna know who the "fuck you" came from. I like their attitude.
 

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 05:38:17 AM »
I wanna know who the "fuck you" came from. I like their attitude.

Me too.

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 01:42:30 PM »
I read that stupid manifesto, I'm glad that this is happening to his cases. I hope the civil suit goes the same way.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2018, 01:43:23 PM »
Google is a triggered-SJW shithole at this point, if you'll pardon loaded vocabulary.

I think this here is a matter of principle, and mine dictate that you may not terminate an employee for "wrongthink," broadly not even when a crime was committed (For example through direct advocating of violence), especially over something as... Well, stupid, as diversity so-called issues. Now, I come at this from a socially homogenous Scandinavian perspective. In my corner of the world, there are no legal barriers preventing someone from achieving their academic, industrial or economic potential as they see fit. So, if the... Let's say females. No, actually, let's go with the Somali community, is generally underrepresented in Norwegian universities or in leadership positions in business and politics... That's not a problem any one except any given individual from said community needs to attempt to fix. Neither businesses, the government or the society in general owe them any sort of special dispensation, and in a culture which generally values individualism, they would be wrong to give it. [/giveuprambling]

Ok... I will attempt not to rant and ramble too much and to that end, I will try to outline the principles which dictate my position in this case without expanding them too much. If someone does want a conversation on some of them... Just start it, and I will try to stick with it. Here is my list;

1. (Capital 1. The rest sorted in no particular order) Free speech/free expression, especially as tied into 2. When someone comes for what is yours, and you are not allowed to speak against them... Blood will be spilled. Free speech and free expression are the ideals on which all my other ideals hinge.
2. Individualism, and intersectionalist bullshit be damned alongside Socialist (capital s) and Communist ideologies.
3. Liberty. Broadly, as long as I'm minding my own business, it is my business to mind. This is where the equality of opportunity comes in, while the equality of outcome is directly opposed to this.
4. Meritocracy. If I want a private plane like you, I'll have to earn it, just as if you want a job like mine, you will have to earn it.
5. Statism (less relevant here). I want a state to guarantee my abovementioned ideals to the best of its ability.

I suppose this makes me a raging alt-right-neo-nazi-racist-misogynist-scum plus a few other buzzwords, also known in the less hysterical parts of the anthroposphere as "Liberal"

So, where does this leave my despicable self in regard to this case?

If Google is trying to encourage people, other than those best suited for the job, to apply, that is anti-meritocratic and anti-individualistic and illiberal.
If Google then tries to silence or simply remove dissenting voices, that is anti-free-speech and illiberal and anti-individualist.

Not being completely jaded while waiting for the world to end in a nuclear apocalypse over some stupid shit yet, I have no choice but not to stand for that, so... I have made my objections known with my wallet.

By the way, I haven't really touched the content of mr. Damore's memo. That is because its content is largely irrelevant to the case I'm trying to make here, that being that MY perfect outcome is a freer world, not a more equal one. Still, if any one does want to discuss the finer points of the memo... I'll join one of them conversations in a heartbeat if I have anything at all to contribute.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 01:54:27 PM by Asmodean »
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Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2018, 03:32:04 PM »
If Google is trying to encourage people, other than those best suited for the job, to apply[...]
They are not.

Quote from: Asmodean
If Google then tries to silence or simply remove dissenting voices[...]
They are not.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2018, 03:46:48 PM »
They are not.

Quote from: Google
Equal Opportunity
At Google, we don't just accept difference - we celebrate it, we support it, and we thrive on it for the benefit of our employees, our products and our community. Google is proud to be an equal opportunity workplace and is an affirmative action employer. We are committed to equal employment opportunity regardless of race, color, ancestry, religion, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, age, citizenship, marital status, disability, gender identity or Veteran status. We also consider qualified applicants regardless of criminal histories, consistent with legal requirements. If you have a disability or special need that requires accommodation, please let us know.
They are. Just from their own fucking careers footer, if nothing else... They are.

Quote from: Davin
They are not.
I refer you to the curious cases of James Damore and Tim Chevelier (Or... with added spelling)

The jury is out on this one, but the winds are indeed blowing towards a pretty strong "They are" here as well.
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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2018, 04:49:56 PM »
I'm truly sorry, but I can't keep explaining this simple thing to you over and over again hoping that you'll finally understand something so simple and obvious.
I'm not the "Dumb-Ass Whisperer".

I really, really hate anti-semantics.

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2018, 05:16:30 PM »
I detest the perceived need for "affirmative action" in favour of any group. If any organisation is doing things correctly then they are choosing the right people regardless of gender, belief, nationality, colour or anything else. "Affirmative action" is usually a defence mechanism, a perception tool and may have little effect on the everyday behaviour of individuals.

There were movements in this country to promote anonymised initial selection techniques for jobs, but things like naming the school attended in a CV may indicate gender. So someone suggested "grading" all schools so that could be quoted. Got a bit silly.

In elections here "affirmative action" was proposed by listing woman only candidates for some seats. So some constituents did not actually get the local candidate of their choice but had an "outsider" foistered on them. Totally artficial, just image building but, yeah, until people get sendible msybe necessary.
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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2018, 05:18:22 PM »
They are not.

Quote from: Google
Equal Opportunity
At Google, we don't just accept difference - we celebrate it, we support it, and we thrive on it for the benefit of our employees, our products and our community. Google is proud to be an equal opportunity workplace and is an affirmative action employer. We are committed to equal employment opportunity regardless of race, color, ancestry, religion, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, age, citizenship, marital status, disability, gender identity or Veteran status. We also consider qualified applicants regardless of criminal histories, consistent with legal requirements. If you have a disability or special need that requires accommodation, please let us know.
They are. Just from their own fucking careers footer, if nothing else... They are.
That would only be "not hiring the best" if you think that women cannot be the best. I don't think that is true.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote from: Davin
They are not.
I refer you to the curious cases of James Damore and Tim Chevelier (Or... with added spelling)

The jury is out on this one, but the winds are indeed blowing towards a pretty strong "They are" here as well.
Did google delete what the guy said or otherwise remove it from the web? No? Then he did have free speech. Free speech does not guarantee that one doesn't suffer from the consequences of what they say, just that they get to say it. Free speech also doesn't subvert the rights of a company to fire someone toxic to their work environment.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2018, 06:41:54 PM »
That would only be "not hiring the best" if you think that women cannot be the best. I don't think that is true.
Not unless you engage in some highly questionable identity politics.

Here is how you hire the best candidate:

1. Read as many of the prospective candidates' CVs as convenient.
2. Interview those qualified and appearing suitable.
3. Hire whomever you deem to be better suited for a job, OR
4. Do a second round of interviews, then return to 3, OR
5. Do a third one and/or ask for a work sample.
6. Return to 3. If dissatisfied with the best pick, return to 1.

Nowhere in these steps is "Give the job to the one with the penis," or "If they seem about equal, go with the black woman," or any - any such nonsense. YOU are the one bringing gender into this, not I. Or, translated to the issue at hand, Google is the physical characteristic obsessed party here, not Mr. Damore.

On a more personal-touchy-feely note, and do feel free to disregard the whole paragraph for that reason, I hardly think I have one core value, which the concept of affirmative action does not rub against the grain. I would not like to work in a place which hired thusly, if nothing else, because then I would look at my colleagues who fall into the "affirmative action enabled" cathegories and wonder, "are they here because they kick ass at the craft, oooorrr..." And unless they knew differently, I assume they would wonder the same. "Do I deserve to be here?" is a rather painful question to ponder over any sustained period of time.

Quote
Did google delete what the guy said or otherwise remove it from the web? No? Then he did have free speech. Free speech does not guarantee that one doesn't suffer from the consequences of what they say, just that they get to say it. Free speech also doesn't subvert the rights of a company to fire someone toxic to their work environment.
They were fired. From a tech company. (as opposed to news/tv/other direct media) Over some shit they said/posted/otherwise expressed. That said,

"Toxic to their work environment..."

My issue here is with the environment itself being politicised poison. Your response is quite beside the point I was making though, so I'm happy to drop it, unless you are interested in me addressing the finer points of free speech, personal and corporate responsibility.



What's with the wamen-gif, Papasito..? You know I easily misunderstand such, unless explained using like... Words and shit  ;)

I detest the perceived need for "affirmative action" in favour of any group. If any organisation is doing things correctly then they are choosing the right people regardless of gender, belief, nationality, colour or anything else. "Affirmative action" is usually a defence mechanism, a perception tool and may have little effect on the everyday behaviour of individuals.

There were movements in this country to promote anonymised initial selection techniques for jobs, but things like naming the school attended in a CV may indicate gender. So someone suggested "grading" all schools so that could be quoted. Got a bit silly.

In elections here "affirmative action" was proposed by listing woman only candidates for some seats. So some constituents did not actually get the local candidate of their choice but had an "outsider" foistered on them. Totally artficial, just image building but, yeah, until people get sendible msybe necessary.
Yeah... Give people freedom and stop bitching when they use said freedom without achieving your pre-assumed distributions-of-whatever, is what I say. But then again, half the Norwegian Internet probably thinks I'm a wife beater at this point, so what do I know?
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Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2018, 06:43:49 PM »
I detest the perceived need for "affirmative action" in favour of any group. If any organisation is doing things correctly then they are choosing the right people regardless of gender, belief, nationality, colour or anything else. "Affirmative action" is usually a defence mechanism, a perception tool and may have little effect on the everyday behaviour of individuals.

There were movements in this country to promote anonymised initial selection techniques for jobs, but things like naming the school attended in a CV may indicate gender. So someone suggested "grading" all schools so that could be quoted. Got a bit silly.

In elections here "affirmative action" was proposed by listing woman only candidates for some seats. So some constituents did not actually get the local candidate of their choice but had an "outsider" foistered on them. Totally artficial, just image building but, yeah, until people get sendible msybe necessary.
I believe that it is still required so long as people are not exposed enough.

This study for example, shows that there is a male bias in some things:
http://www.pnas.org/content/111/12/4403
Quote
Although there is some evidence of a sex difference in mathematics performance, which is shrinking over time, there is no sex disparity in performance on an arithmetic task such as ours. Nevertheless, the stereotype of women’s inferior performance on every mathematics-related task is pervasive.

Also, in that study, you can see that the difference between a man's professed ability and actual ability is far greater than it is for women.

Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I do not think that an intentional bias is the major problem, I think that there are fewer of those people. I think the current issue affecting most is simply and unintentional bias.

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Asmodean

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2018, 06:54:04 PM »
I believe that it is still required so long as people are not exposed enough.
Yes, but it is a terrible "solution."

You answer gender discrimination with more gender discrimination. You answer racial discrimination with more racial discrimination. And, on a broader scale, you answer opression with opression.

Rather than fighting fire with fire, might I suggest that you try and invent water?

I'm not trying to be a salty little cunt here, and I think you genuinely do care about this issue, but... How is your solution Liberal? And if it is not, why should I get on board? For that matter, why should the woman sitting next to me? The black guy two doors down? Any other INDIVIDUAL human being?

Quote
Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I do not think that an intentional bias is the major problem, I think that there are fewer of those people. I think the current issue affecting most is simply and unintentional bias.
I don't think it's bias. Well, it is, but... At least here, it's not a problem. Individual biases are the reason why my company, for example, has multiple people involved in hiring any one for any position - it's not just at the HR consultant's discretion, far from it.
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Davin

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2018, 07:12:29 PM »
That would only be "not hiring the best" if you think that women cannot be the best. I don't think that is true.
[...]Nowhere in these steps is "Give the job to the one with the penis," or "If they seem about equal, go with the black woman," or any - any such nonsense.[...]
This section addresses nothing I said so far, especially not the part you quoted, so I will ignore it.

The change in claims is noted, but the change seems to favor your point only if you ignore mine. The issue as presented is that you claimed that if a company focuses on hiring more women, then they will not get the best. This implies that women, (or more generously most women), are not the best. If women can be the best, then focusing on hiring more of them should still allow hiring the best.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
Did google delete what the guy said or otherwise remove it from the web? No? Then he did have free speech. Free speech does not guarantee that one doesn't suffer from the consequences of what they say, just that they get to say it. Free speech also doesn't subvert the rights of a company to fire someone toxic to their work environment.
They were fired. From a tech company. (as opposed to news/tv/other direct media) Over some shit they said/posted/otherwise expressed.
Not an uncommon practice, the specifics of which belong to another discussion. His speech is still out there and available, yes? Then he has his free speech. This is not a free speech issue.

Quote from: Asmodean
That said,

"Toxic to their work environment..."

My issue here is with the environment itself being politicised poison.[...]
Then it shouldn't be an issue for the guy or you to not work there. Unless you feel like overwriting a company's rights merely to suit his (and apparently your), personal preferences.

I believe that it is still required so long as people are not exposed enough.
Yes, but it is a terrible "solution."

You answer gender discrimination with more gender discrimination. You answer racial discrimination with more racial discrimination. And, on a broader scale, you answer opression with opression.
No, I'm not. Use my words, not how you feel about my words and you'll have a better time understanding what I mean.

Quote from: Asmodean
Rather than fighting fire with fire, might I suggest that you try and invent water?
So no one gets a job? I don't see how that analogy makes sense any other way.

Quote from: Asmodean
I'm not trying to be a salty little cunt here, and I think you genuinely do care about this issue, but... How is your solution Liberal? And if it is not, why should I get on board? For that matter, why should the woman sitting next to me? The black guy two doors down? Any other INDIVIDUAL human being?
I don't give a shit about liberal or conservative. I don't give a shit about any kind of emotional labeling, I'm just in support of fixing a pervasive problem. I am not a liberal, I am not a conservative, I am not part of any political party... the reason people should be on board is if they want to fix problems, not for any childish thing like blindly supporting a group they think they belong to.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I do not think that an intentional bias is the major problem, I think that there are fewer of those people. I think the current issue affecting most is simply and unintentional bias.
I don't think it's bias. Well, it is, but... At least here, it's not a problem. Individual biases are the reason why my company, for example, has multiple people involved in hiring any one for any position - it's not just at the HR consultant's discretion, far from it.
Having more people susceptible to the bias doesn't solve the problem of the bias. But it can make it worse, because the amount of biased gates (or even generously, "potentially biased gates"), a woman has to pass through necessarily decreases her odds to make it through to success.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

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Re: US National Labor Relations Board Has Been Corrupted by Feminazis!
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2018, 07:52:40 PM »
I've seen this whole discussion dragged out on YouTube and Facebook. Apparently it is no longer allowed to have old fashioned ideas anymore. Merits no longer seem to count, it is all about skin colour and gender. Companies like Google could fire you for Wrong-think if you have a different opinion and you could be marked by fucking SJW morons as being a member of the Alt-Right. Apparently normal moderate conservative ideas are no longer wanted and everyone on the right of Marxism is now a Nazi.
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