Author Topic: Faith, belif and freedom of choice.  (Read 1042 times)


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Faith, belif and freedom of choice.
« on: March 11, 2018, 10:15:48 AM »
Having  looked carefully at the descriptions of the "Religion" and "Philosophy" categories I decided that the latter was closest.

Listening to the treatment of those of the Baha'i faith in Iran in a World Service prog I had a little think. We atheists decry belief in the supernatural. We humanists, perhaps because we have a sort of internationally agreed set of tenets regarding the nature of mankind, are possibly a little more flexible. Personally I feel that a "belief" is essential in civilised life - just that it should be based on something that has a concrete effect on this world. If a person's belief encourages them to act in a charitable or courageous way, with no strings attached, for the benefit of mankind it, surely, has to be applauded.

Anyway, I came to the conclusion, the distillation in my mind, that I do not give a toss what a mature person believes or has faith in but that he or she should be allowed to reach that state in an educated manner. That they should have been offered, in an unbiased, unprejudiced, objective way, every alternative belief or unbelief system (that espouses civilised ends) and then allowed a free choice.

Nothing new here, really a review and a reiteration, but such are needed occasionaly to keep an edge on one's thoughts. And beliefs.
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Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74


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Re: Faith, belif and freedom of choice.
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 12:01:12 AM »
The title of this thread and some of Dave's thoughts, bring me to this bit of news:   

Some high horsepower evangelicals, from around the nation,have arranged to have a Pow-Wow with Trump.  The meeting is to be held in New York at one of the hotels. What Hotel?  A Trump hotel of course.  The meeting is ostensibly about the probable influence of the Trump dalliances on the mid term elections.  The holy men fear that some of the jesus freaks who voted for Trump will have changed their minds about him. Pussy grabbing and all that other stuff, don't you know. At this point the good clergymen are denying that the conferences are about Trumps bad boy behavior. Yeah right!

They do want to patch up the damage as best they can so that the conservative right will not lose their dominance in the legislative bodies. So far they have had some wins, via Trump encyclicals, in cases that were favorable to the theists................... 

Old Seer

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Re: Faith, belif and freedom of choice.
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 03:06:20 PM »
From what I make of it.
One should care about what others believe, or believe "in", there is a difference. Atheists don't seem to realize that what religious floks believe or believe in has a bearing on their lives. IE, if politicians have a religion, their religion has an effect on all that come under laws they make. Whether an Atheist likes it or not they are still under religious beliefs of those who are dominant. The fact is---no one has to believe or believe in anything, as believe does not change universal law which is the big winner in the end anyways. Beliefs do not change facts, and therefore belief normally entails all sorts of mis-facts. It still all comes out on those that have no religion as well as those who do have a religion. Again IE- believing in the universe is of no value because the belief changes nothing in the universe.

When one believes "in" something it,s like a rock in one's psyche, and the stronger the belief the bigger the rock becomes. If time comes that is needed to remove the rock---it most likely can't be removed except over time, and one may continuing knowingly to believe in what is false. Also, one tends to believe in falsehoods for the convenience of gain (profit). Belief then-isn't necessary, as said, it won't change the facts + or -. What sense does it make to believe in a super human someone when it's obvious that people are forced to live under rules made by people. So then, the value of belief resides mostly in being under the forces of those who operate in falsehoods.

That means that I have to be concerned of what others believe, as those beliefs are also perpetrated upon me. There's no sense in believing the sun will appear in the morning because it will whether I believe it or not. Galileo spent a good part of his life under house arrest because he found the religious masters wrong. (My favorite example of the consequences of belief).
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.

Rift Zone

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Re: Faith, belif and freedom of choice.
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2018, 01:05:20 AM »
Galileo spent a good part of his life under house arrest because he found the religious masters wrong. (My favorite example of the consequences of belief).
He would have been bbq'd if it were not for his close friend deciding his fate.   

Well put Old Seer!    I think you're right about that.  I also think we should be concerned with other's belief structures, it does impact our lives.
In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival.   -Carl Sagan