Author Topic: How would you define atheism to a theist?  (Read 2586 times)

xSilverPhinx

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 11:12:31 AM »
"Atheism contends that there is no rational evidence for the existence of the supernatural."

But there are atheists who believe in ghosts and such. :notsure:

I would tinker with Dave's definition a little and say it's

"Atheism contends that there is no rational evidence for the existence of deities.""
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Dave

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2018, 11:23:49 AM »
"Atheism contends that there is no rational evidence for the existence of the supernatural."

But there are atheists who believe in ghosts and such. :notsure:

I would tinker with Dave's definition a little and say it's

"Atheism contends that there is no rational evidence for the existence of deities.""

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Pasta Chick

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2018, 02:40:26 PM »
"I don't believe in any god."

Anything beyond that is an attempt to assign ideology to the position.

If they're too fucking dense to understand something so sim9e, that's really not my problem.

Rift Zone

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2018, 04:10:00 AM »
The structure of the universe discludes deity.
In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival.   -Carl Sagan

Caliasseia

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2019, 01:38:37 AM »
I answer this question as follows.

Atheism, in its rigorous formulation, consists of suspicion of unsupported supernaturalist assertions. That is it. Which does not mean, as duplicitous pedlars of apologetics mendaciously assert in return, that atheism presents the contrary assertion, because it's perfectly possible to be suspicious of an assertion and its negation simultaneously.

The shorter version: atheism consists of "YOU assert that your magic man exists, YOU support that assertion". All we have to do is sit back and watch whether the supernaturalist fails or succeeds in this.

Bad ideas exist to be destroyed ...

No one

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2019, 07:50:15 AM »
I would speak very slowly, and use very small words.

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2019, 07:57:39 AM »
I would speak very slowly, and use very small words.

That's why they like 'God'. It's a nice little word.
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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2019, 08:20:11 AM »
Atheism is the lack of positive belief in gods, sometimes the positive belief that there are no gods. "I don't believe in gods. Therefore, I'm an Atheist" "I believe that there are no gods. Therefore I'm an Atheist."


I think it covers the Dark side™ of the Dawkins' scale.
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Icarus

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2019, 01:38:13 AM »
I believe in one fewer Gods than you do.

Bluenose

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2019, 03:09:24 AM »
I believe in one fewer Gods than you do.

The version I like is "when you understand why you don't believe in all the other gods, you will understand why I don't believe in yours".
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Icarus

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2019, 12:03:59 AM »
^ Well said Bluenose. That is the respectful way to reply.   

I confess that my hidden desire would be to assail the theist with rock solid logic and some disdain thrown in...........But I am a nice guy who does not deliberately participate in  fights unless unforgivably provoked.

Bluenose

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 02:48:44 AM »
^ Well said Bluenose. That is the respectful way to reply.   

I confess that my hidden desire would be to assail the theist with rock solid logic and some disdain thrown in...........But I am a nice guy who does not deliberately participate in  fights unless unforgivably provoked.

Of course the god botherers are expert at unforgivable provocation...
“The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”

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+++ Divide by cucumber error: please reinstall universe and reboot.  +++

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SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2019, 08:52:40 PM »
I regularly get theists telling me what atheism is. This is my most recent attempt at an explanation: Atheism is the rational deduction that the lack of evidence to support the conjecture that gods exist is sufficient to support a world view that gods do not exist. Thoughts?
And you accuse me of composing word salads? :-\  "World view," is a substitute term for ontology - the ordering of things that exist. It was generated to be a substitute for atheists to use instead of the word, "religion," because of their Onomatophobia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_view

To get it all straight, you have to go over the three terms that are being compared. You will have to explain to them what theism and humanism are and why atheism is not in the same category:
  • Theism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that a supernatural deity orders/defines reality.
  • Humanism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that humans order/define reality.
  • Atheism is a political doctrine that opposes theist doctrine as the basis for public policy, because it is absurd to designate an ontology as the antithesis of a designated ontology; which is what you are doing when you suggest that atheism has something to do with determining what exists - world view.
Atheism is the lack of positive belief in gods, sometimes the positive belief that there are no gods. "I don't believe in gods. Therefore, I'm an Atheist" "I believe that there are no gods. Therefore I'm an Atheist."
"Atheism contends that there is no rational evidence for the existence of the supernatural."
You are borrowing a definition that was generated under less sophisticated circumstances. Generations ago the people would not be sophisticated to understand the error of ontology that you are trying to justify with your word salads. So, it would be much better if you came to terms with the correction.

The monotheist god is probably always a personification of order - ontology.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 09:55:16 PM by SidewalkCynic »
If there were a god, then it would have revealed itself to me. There has never been anything more important in the history of Mankind than what I am delivering - scientific collation theory for the organization of technology.

Bluenose

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2019, 01:21:09 AM »
I regularly get theists telling me what atheism is. This is my most recent attempt at an explanation: Atheism is the rational deduction that the lack of evidence to support the conjecture that gods exist is sufficient to support a world view that gods do not exist. Thoughts?
And you accuse me of composing word salads? :-\  "World view," is a substitute term for ontology - the ordering of things that exist. It was generated to be a substitute for atheists to use instead of the word, "religion," because of their Onomatophobia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_view

To get it all straight, you have to go over the three terms that are being compared. You will have to explain to them what theism and humanism are and why atheism is not in the same category:
  • Theism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that a supernatural deity orders/defines reality.
  • Humanism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that humans order/define reality.
  • Atheism is a political doctrine that opposes theist doctrine as the basis for public policy, because it is absurd to designate an ontology as the antithesis of a designated ontology; which is what you are doing when you suggest that atheism has something to do with determining what exists - world view.

Like the Red Queen, you choose to define words in your own idiosyncratic manner: "words mean what I choose them to mean."  However, language does not work that way.

You start off with a tautological definition of theism, then proceed to a completely bogus definition of humanism and further progress to a ridiculous definition of atheism.

Humanism is not an ontological (a branch of metaphysics concerned with identifying, in the most general terms, the kinds of things that actually exist) doctrine about anything, it is (to quote Wikipedia), "a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition."

Atheism is not a political stance about anything.  It is the rejection of the idea of supernatural agency, first, last and always.  That some atheists may have certain political views is entirely beside the point.

You are simply constructing an elaborate straw-man and I'm not buying it

Quote
Atheism is the lack of positive belief in gods, sometimes the positive belief that there are no gods. "I don't believe in gods. Therefore, I'm an Atheist" "I believe that there are no gods. Therefore I'm an Atheist."
"Atheism contends that there is no rational evidence for the existence of the supernatural."
You are borrowing a definition that was generated under less sophisticated circumstances. Generations ago the people would not be sophisticated to understand the error of ontology that you are trying to justify with your word salads. So, it would be much better if you came to terms with the correction.

Project much?

Quote
The monotheist god is probably always a personification of order - ontology.

The monotheist god, like all gods, is entirely without the slightest empirical support. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens.
“The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

+++ Divide by cucumber error: please reinstall universe and reboot.  +++

GNU Terry Pratchett

SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2019, 03:13:02 PM »
(to quote Wikipedia), "a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition."
". . . A philosophical and ethical stance . . ," is a word salad for ontology; you are just not keen enough to recognize it, because you are afraid.

You are simply constructing an elaborate straw-man and I'm not buying it
I am not constructing a straw-man. You are protecting dogma. Previous generations were not sophisticated enough to handle the proper definitions, nor was it necessary - there were not enough humanists to worry about.
Like the Red Queen, you choose to define words in your own idiosyncratic manner: "words mean what I choose them to mean."  However, language does not work that way.
I am correcting the falsehoods that atheists have failed to detect in the definitions of words that were incorrectly defined by theist dictionary editors and adopted by humanists as doctrine.

Quote
The monotheist god is probably always a personification of order - ontology.
The monotheist god, like all gods, is entirely without the slightest empirical support. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens.

You are not even trying to comprehend the argument I am making, because it has you so enraged that anyone would challenge the dogma. I am not denying that gods do not exist - I am explaining what the story line does for theists.

If there were a god, then it would have revealed itself to me. There has never been anything more important in the history of Mankind than what I am delivering - scientific collation theory for the organization of technology.