Author Topic: How would you define atheism to a theist?  (Read 3981 times)

SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2019, 04:40:18 PM »
! ! ! HOLY SHIT ! ! !

Look what I found
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The French Revolution can be described as the first period where atheism became implemented politically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

End of second paragraph - no citation, but an article,"Dechristianization of France," provides some amount of justification for the claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianization_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution

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The dechristianization of France during the French Revolution is a conventional description of the results of a number of separate policies conducted by various governments of France between the start of the French Revolution in 1789 and the Concordat of 1801, forming the basis of the later and less radical laïcité policies. The goal of the campaign between 1793 and 1794 ranged from the public reclamation of the massive amounts of land, power, and money held by the Catholic Church in France to the termination of Catholic religious practice and of the religion itself.[1][2][3] There has been much scholarly debate over whether the movement was popularly motivated.[1]

The French Revolution initially began with attacks on church corruption and the wealth of the higher clergy, an action with which even many Christians could identify, since the Roman Catholic church held a dominant role in pre-revolutionary France. During a two-year period known as the Reign of Terror, the episodes of anti-clericalism grew more violent than any in modern European history. The new revolutionary authorities suppressed the church; abolished the Catholic monarchy; nationalized church property; exiled 30,000 priests and killed hundreds more.[4] In October 1793 the Christian calendar was replaced with one reckoning from the date of the Revolution, and Festivals of Liberty, Reason and the Supreme Being were scheduled. New forms of moral religion emerged, including the deistic Cult of the Supreme Being and the atheistic Cult of Reason,[5] with the revolutionary government briefly mandating observance of the former in April 1794.[6][7][8][9][10]
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The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)[note 1] was France's first established state-sponsored atheistic religion, intended as a replacement for Roman Catholicism during the French Revolution. It also rivaled Robespierre's Cult of the Supreme Being.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason[1][2][3][4]
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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2019, 07:23:16 PM »
This is common knowledge, and I don't see where it helps your point.  Religion has been repeatedly politicized thru out history but that doesn't make religion inherently political either.
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SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2019, 08:10:44 PM »
This is common knowledge, and I don't see where it helps your point.
I don't think it is that common. I have never read of atheists referring to the French Revolution and the Cult of Reason as a starting point of modern atheism. It helps my point in that it demonstrates that atheism is a doctrine that opposes theist based doctrine for public policy - the French Revolutionaries under the revelation of there being no god did what they thought was proper to eliminate the theists hold of the government powers.

Religion has been repeatedly politicized thru out history but that doesn't make religion inherently political either.

What is the difference between religion and political partisanship?

The leaders from either category seem to be claiming to have the moral high ground for organizing community. If you were to accept religions as political parties then it would be easier to defeat the "magic," with reason in the course of legislation litigation. As it is, you unwittingly provide them shelter under the guise of church and state separation.
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Bluenose

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2019, 10:09:32 PM »
There have been atheists throughout history from ancient times, what a group of alleged atheists did during the French Revolution over 200  years ago is entirely beside the point. It has no bearing on atheism today.

SidewalkCynic you are seeking to redefine words to suit your specious argument. When called out, you double down. I am going to revert to my normal action when faced with such trollish behaviour. I don't feed the trolls. Bye, I'm disengaging.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 09:03:44 AM by Bluenose »
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SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2019, 03:04:33 PM »
SidewalkCynic you are seeking to redefine words to suit your specious argument.
My argument is valid and sound. Your counter-argument is based on dogma - inadequately reasoned definitions from bygone eras of sophistication dominated by appeasing the Christian world.

When called out, you double down.
Yes, because I am right and I want to make sure everyone knows that I figured it out; and that, except for me, contemporary atheists are guilty of harboring dogma, because they have failed to critically analyse the semantics. And when faced with the sound reasoning they revert to guard their dogma in much the same way that the Church guards its dogma.

Eventually, I publish in the mainstream, and one of the contemporary atheist respected leaders recognizes the sound reasoning and issues a complimentary opinion that sways the larger audience. Who will that person be?

I am going to revert to my normal action when faced with such trollish behaviour. I don't feed the trolls. Bye, I'm disengaging.
The mere fact that this discussion was commenced is sufficient evidence that there are some problems atheists have when defining atheism. Not to mention the silly relative degrees of atheism that have been defined: strong atheism, weak atheism, militant atheism, etc.
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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2019, 08:15:20 PM »
I regularly get theists telling me what atheism is. This is my most recent attempt at an explaination.

"Atheism is the rational deduction that the lack of evidence to support the conjecture that gods exist is sufficient to support a world view that gods do not exist."

Thoughts?

I'd start with the old "I have a jar of jelly beans, with either an even number or odd number of jelly beans in it... without opening the jar and counting them do you think the jar contains an even or odd amount?"

Unless someone can leap that hurdle, there's not much point going farther.

If they answer something like "I'd have no way of deciding."

I'd say "I have no way of deciding if any of the gods are real".

Although the antitheist in me might add that since I know jelly beans are real things and are known to exist, I know that the question could actually be answered, even if I personally never find out what the answer is. But until a being with "omni-abilities" can be shown to be possible or capable of existing there's not much point in even asking if there are any.
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