Author Topic: The Black Church Taught Me To Be A Docile Victim And I Renounce It's Lessons  (Read 1242 times)

AngelOfDeath

  • Has Received Bacon
  • *
  • Posts: 135


i read the article.  So you're wanting us to comment on whether religion is racially oppressing people?  i don't understand
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:15:03 AM by AngelOfDeath »

Icarus

  • The wise one.
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5028
^ What's not to understand AOD?  Religion oppresses people of all colors, not just black people. I do imply, nay, assure you, that religion was often used as a tool during the slavery era of the Americas and elsewhere way back in the history of man and his gods.

Here is the deal. Religion has historically been used as an effective method for controlling the masses.  Emperor/Caesar Augustus figured that out in the first century and it worked for him. Constantine used it advantageously at a later interval.. He was not the first to use a universal religion to keep his wide spread subjects in line. Adherence to a standard religion was promoted and even enforced because it coalesced the minds of the people. The masses were therefore not under much pressure from the occasional thinkers who dared oppose the mainstream beliefs.  Those who strayed from the religion of the day were ostracized by the main stream citizens who had been so sufficiently brainwashed.  There was great economic advantage.  The roman soldiers and officials had far less trouble with the ordinary citizens.  Any of the potential rabble rousers were condemned and pressured  by the  believers.  That constituted a great savings of money or gold for the Roman empire. 

That is not the only example of  such a setup.  It works the other way too.   The Parthians never did get a universal accepted and revered religion going and they were constantly at odds with one another. They routinely killed their leaders or kings.  They had several Gods, were sometimes adherents of Zoroastra, Bel,   and several other divine figures. They were unfortunately unorganized and eventually faded from whatever glory they might have achieved. By and by, Mohammed and Allah came along and almost united them.  Too damned bad that they are still out there obligatorily  killing one another because they can not seem to come to a common agreement about how Allah wants things to be done.  Meanwhile the Jews held tenaciously to their beliefs.... and still do. The thing is that they never were much inclined to submit to the emperors religion du jour or any other way to fly.  (happy Hannukah y'all)

'Scuse me I am on the cusp of a rip snorting tear about the historic utilization of religion to reinforce the power of rulers. 

AngelOfDeath

  • Has Received Bacon
  • *
  • Posts: 135


It is kind of odd to read
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:14:38 AM by AngelOfDeath »

Pasta Chick

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5204
There are a lot of groups I follow in which the use of organized religion as a tool of racial oppression is a frequent topic. Not belonging to these groups myself - in fact belonging to the groups that have historically used religion as such - it is not something I have a right to offer commentary on. But being athiest and having grave concerns over church abuse as a whole, it is a topic that I find extremely important and often overlooked. As part of this forum section is for the sharing of personal stories, I thought bringing some off-forum voices in to be heard would be meaningful.

GIVEN RECENT FORUM EVENTS I AM REALLY FUCKING HESITANT TO DO THIS AND SO HELP ME I AM RIGHT ON THE EDGE. FUCKING BEHAVE IN THIS THREAD.

The Black Church Taught Me To Be A Docile Victim And I Renounce It's Lessons

Quote
I was raised in a traditional southern Black Christian household, and I suppose that there are times when I venture into a sort of “cultural Christianity” because it is easier to use familiar cultural terms in order to express myself to others.

There are many reasons that I have become more and more disillusioned with religion as I have gotten older, the most profound of which is the trauma that I have associated with Christianity and the things surrounding it.

Much of religious doctrine, especially the form of Christianity that I was taught and continue to witness, goes directly against my fundamental belief system, which is that every living being deserves the right to exist free from violence and oppression. And I will not compromise these beliefs for anything.

i read the article.  So you're wanting us to comment on whether religion is racially oppressing people?  i don't understand

Somehow it doesn't shock me that the concept of simply listening to the lived experience of others is difficult for you to grasp  ::)

Bad Penny II

  • Sprach mit Zarathustra
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Nice Borderline Troll
There are a lot of groups I follow in which the use of organized religion as a tool of racial oppression is a frequent topic.

Is there racial oppression going on here? it seems a southern black church is doing the oppressing.


Certainty disturbs me


Pasta Chick

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5204
There are a lot of groups I follow in which the use of organized religion as a tool of racial oppression is a frequent topic.

Is there racial oppression going on here? it seems a southern black church is doing the oppressing.

Christianity was introduced to slave populations as a form of control. As we see in any population, simply dropping religion isn't a thing.

Combine that with internalized racism (or sexism or any other ism depending on the specific group) and there will always be some amount of people who happily participate in their own oppression.

I had a good vlog on this, I'll have to see if I can find it later.

Ecurb Noselrub

  • No Wall in my name!!!
  • Wears a Colander Hat for Special Occasions
  • *****
  • Posts: 6232
  • Gender: Male
My take.  While I'm an attorney, I'm also an ordained minister.  I've preached in black churches in Texas and visited many more.  Over all, black churches follow a sort of tribal organization in which the preacher (he can be called a pastor, a prophet, an apostle, an elder, a bishop, etc.) is the tribal chieftain and shaman.  There is more hierarchy in black churches than in white churches (except for the Catholic church).  As is evident from election returns, blacks are overwhelmingly Democrats in the USA, and this is evident in church life.  There is little separation of church/state in black churches, similar to the fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative/Republican connection in white churches.  People like like "Reverend" Jesse Jackson and "Reverend" Al Sharpton are overtly political in their religious presentation.  The leaders of black churches generally have a vested interest in keeping the concept of blackness at the forefront, as it would not benefit them for blacks to start going to white churches.  They want them to stay black.  They are open to whites coming to their churches, but few whites want to do this.  So, as MLK said, 11:00 am on Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in American life.  White churches are white, black churches are black, Hispanic churches are Hispanic, Korean churches are Korean, etc.  This is understandable, as people feel more comfortable around those of their ilk.  But for blacks it means keeping the "us vs. them" motif alive.  So I agree that there are subtle suggestions to remain a victim in black churches, as that feeds into the narrative that "we are oppressed and we need to stick together" and "we need to support our black pastors and politicians", and the Democratic party is as much reliant on this as the Republican party is reliant on the white evangelical fundamentalist.   

All this being said, I've had some wonderful times in black churches.  They are not nearly as stayed and inhibited as Episcopalians or even Baptists. 

AngelOfDeath

  • Has Received Bacon
  • *
  • Posts: 135
 Never encountered anything like it
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:26:36 AM by AngelOfDeath »

Icarus

  • The wise one.
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5028
Good post Ecurb. Thank you.

Quite some time ago I used to go to an AME church on some Sunday mornings, but not inside it.  I used to sit outside and listen to the black choir that I enjoyed so much. I did make some casual friends at that church. They were interested  to know why a southern white guy would appreciate what and how they sing.  I was invited inside the church more than once.  I never did reveal that I did not believe what they believed.  No need to spoil a perfectly respectful relationship by two very different segments of society.

 

Papasito Bruno

  • Deranged Psychopathic Twinkle Toes
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5197
  • Gender: Male
  • Save water. Shower together!
I came across this interesting article and it instantly reminded me of this thread..."Why More Young Black People Are Trading In Church for African Spirituality".

It also has within it some additional links to articles by writer D. Danielle Thomas...where she explores why black young women in particular are leaving the church in the article Why Black Millennials Are Leaving The Church.

A quote from the article:
Quote
John Henrik Clarke, a mid-century scholar who pioneered pan-African studies during the Black Power movement, once asked, “How can a slave and its master serve the same God?” Decades later, this question still rings true in the oppressive narratives pushed from the pulpit.

So although more blacks are starting to leave the "Christian Church", many are possibly deciding to stay within their cultural roots by switching to more nature-based traditions of traditional African spirituality.

I'm truly sorry, but I can't keep explaining this simple thing to you over and over again hoping that you'll finally understand something so simple and obvious.
I'm not the "Dumb-Ass Whisperer".

I really, really hate anti-semantics.

Pasta Chick

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5204
^I somehow missed that post and I'll need to read it later, as my day has been full of unspeakable fuckery. But I did come across this whilst attempting to heal my aching neck with heat therapy:

My Black Girl Magic Is Not The Work of God

Quote
As I entered the second semester of graduate school, after having dealt with a series of (un)fortunate events, I told a colleague that it truly seemed like everyone around me viewed my ability to suffer as my greatest achievement. “Seriously, I believe that people think that the best thing that I can do as a Black woman is suffer,” I stated.

They laughed at me, told me that it wasn’t true, then insisted that I pray about it and ask God for the strength to get through the difficult times. Eye roll. God knew what I had gone through, what I was going through, and what I wanted and needed; reminding him via prayer was not going to change anything.

Bad Penny II

  • Sprach mit Zarathustra
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Nice Borderline Troll
There are a lot of groups I follow in which the use of organized religion as a tool of racial oppression is a frequent topic.

Is there racial oppression going on here? it seems a southern black church is doing the oppressing.

I have written my password on a little bit of plastic which I put in an old plastic 45mm film container, put that in one of my wife's discarded plastic placebo containers found in the recycling. And then I bury it in dirt because my crap late night posts haunt me next day.

I will dig a deeper hole next time.
Certainty disturbs me