Proof of a soul? NDEs in the blind.

[Dave]

To me, it is telling that manga has completely ignored solidsquid's excellent investigation of the background of the "Epoch Times" story. There is nothing trustworthy in the contents of the article; nothing solid that can serve as the basis of a rational discussion of the topic. This is a recurring theme in the all the related fields of "out-of-body experiences," "near-death experiences," and disembodied consciousness in general. Lacking verifiable evidence they will always remain in the realm of "what if," and while that may be entertaining in the way that a cannabis-fueled bullshit session is, no rational conclusion can be drawn.

People who want to believe in these things are grasping at the straws offered by charlatans and those who've convinced themselves that they're real. They will never be deterred by those who point out the fact that all there is supporting the belief is spurious logic based on flimsy or misrepresented evidence.

I know epoch times aren't the greatest, but there is a video of the lady telling the story, and why would a blind woman  lie about seeing things?

For similar reasons that a sighted person might?

[Sandra Craft]

I know epoch times aren't the greatest, but there is a video of the lady telling the story, and why would a blind woman  lie about seeing things?

For similar reasons that a sighted person might?

Just what I was thinking.  There's nothing that stops a blind person from being delusional, or relying more on wishful thinking than on common sense.  And certainly nothing that stops a blind person from lying.  These are common human failings.

A question: if I made a video talking about the evidence I had for a dragon living in my garage, would that count as evidence for the existence of dragons?

[Icarus]

Maria, that link is a real treasure.  I particularly liked section three, the function of the temporal lobe that causes us, or enables us, to be religious.  The text is lengthy  and is not a casual read. I suspect that most of the HAFers, and others of our ilk, will find it well worth the read.

[Guardian85]

To me, it is telling that manga has completely ignored solidsquid's excellent investigation of the background of the "Epoch Times" story. There is nothing trustworthy in the contents of the article; nothing solid that can serve as the basis of a rational discussion of the topic. This is a recurring theme in the all the related fields of "out-of-body experiences," "near-death experiences," and disembodied consciousness in general. Lacking verifiable evidence they will always remain in the realm of "what if," and while that may be entertaining in the way that a cannabis-fueled bullshit session is, no rational conclusion can be drawn.

People who want to believe in these things are grasping at the straws offered by charlatans and those who've convinced themselves that they're real. They will never be deterred by those who point out the fact that all there is supporting the belief is spurious logic based on flimsy or misrepresented evidence.

I know epoch times aren't the greatest, but there is a video of the lady telling the story, and why would a blind woman  lie about seeing things?

She may not be lying, merely wrong about what she thinks she experienced.
Or she is lying in order to gain something (attention, sympathy, money...).

[manga]

To me, it is telling that manga has completely ignored solidsquid's excellent investigation of the background of the "Epoch Times" story. There is nothing trustworthy in the contents of the article; nothing solid that can serve as the basis of a rational discussion of the topic. This is a recurring theme in the all the related fields of "out-of-body experiences," "near-death experiences," and disembodied consciousness in general. Lacking verifiable evidence they will always remain in the realm of "what if," and while that may be entertaining in the way that a cannabis-fueled bullshit session is, no rational conclusion can be drawn.

People who want to believe in these things are grasping at the straws offered by charlatans and those who've convinced themselves that they're real. They will never be deterred by those who point out the fact that all there is supporting the belief is spurious logic based on flimsy or misrepresented evidence.

I know epoch times aren't the greatest, but there is a video of the lady telling the story, and why would a blind woman  lie about seeing things?

She may not be lying, merely wrong about what she thinks she experienced.
Or she is lying in order to gain something (attention, sympathy, money...).

I understand what y'all are saying. So, then for the last time, none of you think the fact that a blind person cannot likely see in dreams makes this supernatural?

[Velma]

To me, it is telling that manga has completely ignored solidsquid's excellent investigation of the background of the "Epoch Times" story. There is nothing trustworthy in the contents of the article; nothing solid that can serve as the basis of a rational discussion of the topic. This is a recurring theme in the all the related fields of "out-of-body experiences," "near-death experiences," and disembodied consciousness in general. Lacking verifiable evidence they will always remain in the realm of "what if," and while that may be entertaining in the way that a cannabis-fueled bullshit session is, no rational conclusion can be drawn.

People who want to believe in these things are grasping at the straws offered by charlatans and those who've convinced themselves that they're real. They will never be deterred by those who point out the fact that all there is supporting the belief is spurious logic based on flimsy or misrepresented evidence.

I know epoch times aren't the greatest, but there is a video of the lady telling the story, and why would a blind woman  lie about seeing things?

She may not be lying, merely wrong about what she thinks she experienced.
Or she is lying in order to gain something (attention, sympathy, money...).

I understand what y'all are saying. So, then for the last time, none of you think the fact that a blind person cannot likely see in dreams makes this supernatural?

No. Why would her claim to have seen something during an altered mental state be proof of anything like that?

[Arturo]

I believe that the most unlikely thing to happen (based on my view of the evidence leading up to the event) which proved me wrong once I actually saw it, was that

: show

Power Rangers

was fucking amazing. go goes

[Dave]

To me, it is telling that manga has completely ignored solidsquid's excellent investigation of the background of the "Epoch Times" story. There is nothing trustworthy in the contents of the article; nothing solid that can serve as the basis of a rational discussion of the topic. This is a recurring theme in the all the related fields of "out-of-body experiences," "near-death experiences," and disembodied consciousness in general. Lacking verifiable evidence they will always remain in the realm of "what if," and while that may be entertaining in the way that a cannabis-fueled bullshit session is, no rational conclusion can be drawn.

People who want to believe in these things are grasping at the straws offered by charlatans and those who've convinced themselves that they're real. They will never be deterred by those who point out the fact that all there is supporting the belief is spurious logic based on flimsy or misrepresented evidence.

I know epoch times aren't the greatest, but there is a video of the lady telling the story, and why would a blind woman  lie about seeing things?

She may not be lying, merely wrong about what she thinks she experienced.
Or she is lying in order to gain something (attention, sympathy, money...).

I understand what y'all are saying. So, then for the last time, none of you think the fact that a blind person cannot likely see in dreams makes this supernatural?

Got that right for me, manga. There is no evidence for the supernatural, anywhere in any situation, that I can see.

This does not stop me being an avid fan of the fantasy literary/cinematic genre though. But when I close the book or turn off the video I am back in the real world.

[Magdalena]

This is a very convincing testimony of how beautiful, and/or ugly, the supernatural if it exists, could be...

[manga]

thanks to everyone, I think you were all very rational, and I appreciate that.

[Recusant]

Manga, there are atheists who believe in ghosts and souls, OBE, NDE, and so forth. There are even people who call themselves atheist who believe in a deity or "universal spirit" (see #4 in this list). You'll note that it's a rather small percentage.

I'd surmise that atheists who believe these things are less likely to join a site like this, which is why you haven't got any takers here. When there are multiple plausible explanations for a phenomenon, choosing "it's supernatural" seems unjustified unless you really want to believe in the supernatural. It's not the first logical choice.

[hermes2015]

When there are multiple plausible explanations for a phenomenon, choosing "it's supernatural" seems unjustified unless you really want to believe in the supernatural. It's not the first logical choice.

I suggest you Google Occam's Razor, Manga.

[Sandra Craft]

I'd surmise that atheists who believe these things are less likely to join a site like this, which is why you haven't got any takers here.

Personally, I've got too many other things of greater interest to me to spend serious time on, and I assume that if real, convincing evidence of the supernatural turned up the scientific community would be all over it.  After all, that would be the greatest breakthrough ever, and I imagine there would be something about it intriguing to every scientific discipline.  If there were anything to it, we'd be reading about it daily -- the research papers and peer reviews would be flying.

When that happens, I will change my mind about proposed evidence for the supernatural, but until that happens I will continue to regard it as wishful thinking at best.

[Icarus]

Mags, The SNL vid was a real hoot. I LMAO.   

[Pasta Chick]

I'd surmise that atheists who believe these things are less likely to join a site like this, which is why you haven't got any takers here.

Personally, I've got too many other things of greater interest to me to spend serious time on, and I assume that if real, convincing evidence of the supernatural turned up the scientific community would be all over it.  After all, that would be the greatest breakthrough ever, and I imagine there would be something about it intriguing to every scientific discipline.  If there were anything to it, we'd be reading about it daily -- the research papers and peer reviews would be flying.

When that happens, I will change my mind about proposed evidence for the supernatural, but until that happens I will continue to regard it as wishful thinking at best.

Definitely this. I've definitely expertthings I have no clear explanation for, but generally I think "huh, that was weird" and that's that. There must be an explanation, and "I don't really know" seems a lot more sound than literally making shit up to explain it. If I'm really motivated I can usually find some related science.