Author Topic: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?  (Read 9341 times)

Tank

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #180 on: March 30, 2017, 08:18:59 PM »

Life as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
You've had one vacation for trolling. If you carry on like this you'll get another one.
So t's ok to point out the crimes of theists, but pointing out the crimes of atheists is prohibited.  Got it.
No you don't, but you will. Arturo was not accusing theists of anything. He was expressing his personal feelings. You then compare him to three mass murders. Not acceptable. Two of those people weren't even atheists. And the third did not carry out his atrocities in the name of atheism to further the the aims of some atheist dogma, because such dogma does not even exist. Given the mass murders, mutilations and destruction done specifically to further assorted dogmas of assorted religions the hands of atheists are clean while those of religionists drip with blood.
I didn't mean to compare Arturo to the ugly three - that is your mistaken interpretation.
[/quote]
I'm glad to hear that. Best be careful what you write in future.

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I was attempting to point out that if humans have no fear of God, they are "free" to behave as they see fit, which could have nasty consequences.
Again you demonstrate your utter contempt for atheists as human beings. As if without following some ancient mythology we can't possibly know right from wrong.



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Atheism is a core tenet of Communism; the two can't be separated.  So to kill for Communism is to kill for atheism - and Communists killed on a scale unprecedented in history.
Communism is atheistic that is true. But that is only one tenant of it as a philosophy. No communist killed anybody in the name of atheism in the way Christians, Catholics and Muslims kill in the name of their religions.

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Ted Bundy acted as though he had no fear of God or eternal damnation, which is hardly the sign of a Christian.  Actually, he acted like someone possessed by the devil ... not what you'd expect from a holy Christian boy.
He believed in god so effectively he killed in his name. He was a delusional psychopath influenced by his deep belief in god.

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Hitler was baptised a Catholic when he was a tiny widdle baby.   But as far as I know the adult Adolf wasn't a believer in or a follower of Jesus Christ.
That is probably true. He appears to have been politically Christian/Catholic when it suited him.


If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #181 on: March 31, 2017, 06:59:19 AM »
I don't feel my fleeting existence is in the slightest bit meaningless.
These feelings you have that your life is meaningful must be a delusion, because evolution says the life of a human being is no more meaningful and has no more worth than the life of a flea.


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Religions are false based on their inability to demonstrate otherwise.
A trained philosopher would quickly recognise this statement as some kind of fallacy ... not to mention the fact that you are contradicting yourself - according to your own premise, your statement that religions are false is itself false because you cannot demonstrate otherwise.  (In order for you to demonstrate (to yourself, at least) that religions are false, you would need to die and see what is on "the other side".)

There is evidence that at least some aspects of my religion (Catholicism) could be true, even though a proof is lacking.  The lack of a proof - or even a lack of evidence - doesn't prove that my religion is false.

Albert Einstein believed in certain theories that he couldn't prove, but were proven to be true later on.
So it would have been unwise to say that his beliefs were false based on his inability to demonstrate otherwise.

If I said, "There is gold buried under my house", you can't say this is a false statement, simply because I have no proof that there is gold buried under my house - there may well be gold buried under my house.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #182 on: March 31, 2017, 07:08:20 AM »
Life as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
You've had one vacation for trolling. If you carry on like this you'll get another one.
So t's ok to point out the crimes of theists, but pointing out the crimes of atheists is prohibited.  Got it.

Ted Bundy was not athiest either. He was raised and identified as Methodist after his arrest, although he also joined the LDS for a time.
It's entirely possible that he may have had an ulterior motive in identifying himself as a Christian or even joining the LDS.  It's also entirely possible that I may have been wrong to call him an atheist.

Which of Christ's teachings do you think compelled Tender Ted to rape and murder scores of young women?
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Arturo

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #183 on: March 31, 2017, 12:54:07 PM »
I don't feel my fleeting existence is in the slightest bit meaningless.
These feelings you have that your life is meaningful must be a delusion, because evolution says the life of a human being is no more meaningful and has no more worth than the life of a flea.
1st of all, no.
2nd, you said that Richard Dawkins has told everyone that evolution means your life is meaningless. If you didn't say this, you at least implied it because that's all you say. (I'm actually not going to go back  a and look at what you said because I'm honestly tired of you). But Richard Dawkins has openly and repeatedly said the opposite. That science is poetic, and that implies evolution too. In fact, the very phrase you quoted shows him demonstrating his point.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 01:17:44 PM by Arturo »

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Tank

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #184 on: March 31, 2017, 01:08:26 PM »
I don't feel my fleeting existence is in the slightest bit meaningless.
These feelings you have that your life is meaningful must be a delusion, because evolution says the life of a human being is no more meaningful and has no more worth than the life of a flea.
No. That's because you are putting an impossibly high bar on 'meaningful' and then claiming that everybody else is wrong when they don't agree or reach the bar. You are considering meaningful in the objective sense when there is no objective definition of meaningful. The issue here is the imperfection of human language. Wittgenstein dealt with these issues years ago. Basically language is imperfect. But its all we have. So stop with the semantic arguments to 'win' your case. Engage with the discussion.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #185 on: March 31, 2017, 01:12:18 PM »
Religions are false based on their inability to demonstrate otherwise.
A trained philosopher would quickly recognise this statement as some kind of fallacy ... not to mention the fact that you are contradicting yourself - according to your own premise, your statement that religions are false is itself false because you cannot demonstrate otherwise.  (In order for you to demonstrate (to yourself, at least) that religions are false, you would need to die and see what is on "the other side".)

There is evidence that at least some aspects of my religion (Catholicism) could be true, even though a proof is lacking.  The lack of a proof - or even a lack of evidence - doesn't prove that my religion is false.

Albert Einstein believed in certain theories that he couldn't prove, but were proven to be true later on.
So it would have been unwise to say that his beliefs were false based on his inability to demonstrate otherwise.

If I said, "There is gold buried under my house", you can't say this is a false statement, simply because I have no proof that there is gold buried under my house - there may well be gold buried under my house.
Ok, you should have no difficulty demonstrating religions, any one, are true. Please do so, or retract your assertion. If you neither prove your assertion or retract it I will have to assume you are simply trolling the forum.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Sandra Craft

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #186 on: April 01, 2017, 03:27:48 AM »

If I said, "There is gold buried under my house", you can't say this is a false statement, simply because I have no proof that there is gold buried under my house - there may well be gold buried under my house.

If we're getting into the weeds of semantics, we certainly can say that's a false statement when it's made without evidence of the gold.  What is a true statement is "there may be gold buried under my house".  You did acknowledge the "mayness" in an aside, but it needs to be in the actual statement.

Without the mayness acknowledged up front, statements about the supernatural or your god are no more worth anyone getting excited about than me saying "there's a dinosaur egg in my kitchen cupboard".
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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #187 on: April 01, 2017, 03:41:24 AM »

If I said, "There is gold buried under my house", you can't say this is a false statement, simply because I have no proof that there is gold buried under my house - there may well be gold buried under my house.

If we're getting into the weeds of semantics, we certainly can say that's a false statement when it's made without evidence of the gold.  What is a true statement is "there may be gold buried under my house".  You did acknowledge the "mayness" in an aside, but it needs to be in the actual statement.

Without the mayness acknowledged up front, statements about the supernatural or your god are no more worth anyone getting excited about than me saying "there's a dinosaur egg in my kitchen cupboard".

I'd like to add something. If you have a claim, which is a statement made with no supporting evidence, there is no reason to believe it. Just going around believing what people say means you're easily manipulated and not thinking critically about  other people's input. You have no reason to believe there is a flying teapot orbiting earth and is a waste of time to do so. So don't.

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Sandra Craft

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #188 on: April 01, 2017, 03:59:11 AM »

Albert Einstein believed in certain theories that he couldn't prove, but were proven to be true later on.
So it would have been unwise to say that his beliefs were false based on his inability to demonstrate otherwise.


Also, and maybe one of the more sciencey people can jump in on this one, it's my understanding that a "theory" without evidence or exhaustive testing to back it up is a hypothesis, not an actual theory.  It certainly could turn into a theory in the future, but as long as it's just an educated guess, it's an hypothesis. 

I'm sure Einstein did have a variety of hypothesises that he was fond of, and spoke of as promising (we probably all do) but I'm not sure anyone as careful as Einstein would call it true ahead of the work required to turn it into an actual theory.  I also don't think anyone here would call a fondness for this or that hypothesis "false" unless it was being advanced as a theory when it hadn't reached that point yet.
Sandy

  
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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #189 on: April 01, 2017, 04:26:58 AM »

Which of Christ's teachings do you think compelled Tender Ted to rape and murder scores of young women?

That's a question only Bundy could answer, and that ship has sailed.  But there's no shortage of Xtians who use the Bible to support such things as murder and rape.  Just last year a Xtian lawyer in So. Cal. proposed a law that would allow citizens to execute homosexuals:   http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/03/24/395070728/calif-lawyer-proposes-ballot-initiative-to-kills-gays-and-lesbians

In case you don't believe he's Xtian, he certainly thinks he is: https://matthewgregorymclaughlin.wordpress.com/

If you're going to claim McLaughlin isn't a true Xtian, how are we supposed to know?  Your say-so, which smacks of the 'no true Scottsman' fallacy, or McLaughlin's word?  After all, he's the one who should know what he believes, and why.  Perhaps you could contact him about the biblical support for his proposed law -- I could too, but frankly I don't care enough.
Sandy

  
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Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #190 on: April 01, 2017, 07:34:51 AM »
Quote from: Dredge on March 31, 2017, 06:59:19 AM
Quote
Albert Einstein believed in certain theories that he couldn't prove, but were proven to be true later on.
So it would have been unwise to say that his beliefs were false based on his inability to demonstrate otherwise.
Yes, but you can be 100% sure Albert had good, solid, rational maths as evidence to back up his theory before he publicised it. Gravity, light etc all obey predictable physical laws and the results already exist for anyone, of any or no faith, clever enough to discover them.

Please show us the maths, or any other rational system, that indicates the supernatural existing outside of the human mind.

[Attempt at an explanation as how to "determine" some the physical characterisics of an unidentified and invisible object:

There is a rope attached to a ring, the rope is pulled down tightly - indicating that there is a mass at the bottom end, but you cannot see that mass.
You can introduce a spring balance into the system to measure the weight of that mass + rope system.
Since tbe rope is available you can determine its construction and material and thus weight:length.
You can set the rope swinging and thus determine the period of the "pendulum" the system forms - from thus you can determine informstion about the length of that "pendulum".
From the decay rate of that swing you might obtain infirmation about the environnent the object is in (e.g. more resistance from a liquid than a gas.)
You have enough information to make a good estimate of the mass of the unknown/invisible object.
Your have to make the assumption tbat the rope is of the same material, construction and size for the whole of its length.
You still do not know the shape, density/size or the material of the unknown/invisible object.
Scientific ethics demand that you list all assumptions and known unknowns in your results.


Anyone spot any holes or can offer further determibable factors?]
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 08:37:17 AM by Gloucester »
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Magdalena

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #191 on: April 01, 2017, 07:58:04 AM »
Please show us the maths, or any other rational system, that indicates the supernatural existing outside of the human mind.

Oooh!  I like this.  :smilenod:

Magdalena

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #192 on: April 01, 2017, 08:32:15 AM »

Which of Christ's teachings do you think compelled Tender Ted to rape and murder scores of young women?

That's a question only Bundy could answer, and that ship has sailed.  But there's no shortage of Xtians who use the Bible to support such things as murder and rape.  Just last year a Xtian lawyer in So. Cal. proposed a law that would allow citizens to execute homosexuals:   http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/03/24/395070728/calif-lawyer-proposes-ballot-initiative-to-kills-gays-and-lesbians
Wow!

Arturo

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Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #194 on: April 01, 2017, 09:19:18 AM »
Getting back to Trump...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/03/31/president-donald-j-trump-proclaims-april-2017-national-sexual-assault

Should be in the "bullshit" thread!

OK, so back to pussy grabbing etc from May 1st then?

Hang on, hang on - it's April-the-first today . . .
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.